"Answer to IBS is in the mind" - media coverage of new Chalder/Moss-Morris trial

Given a front page story for an unblinded trial with self-reported outcomes? Damn, the propaganda game is strong. All hail IAPT! It's good for you because we say so.

 

Only caught the tail end of BBC radio 4 world at one. Was Michael Moseley brought in to provide 'balance' talking about dietary changes helping brain/microbiome with depression and anxiety.
Interviewer- should we all be having CBT then?
Hazel Everitt- easier to have CBT than changing diet, and 'to change cognitions and beliefs about IBS'
Never mind Brexit, can we leave the CBT union, please, please?

 

I imagine if the NHS invested in more properly trained dieticians/nutritionists who were well informed about a variety of illnesses it would be a lot more helpful and produce longer term benefits than CBT therapists.

This could be for people with diabetes to celiacs or those with lactose intolerance, kidney stones, allergies, people on particular medications (eg anti-biotics) etc etc But then they would also need to arrange tests..........and of course the NHS don't like testing if they can help it.

 

I'm pretty sure I have some sort of food intolerance, but it's so difficult to figure out.

CBT is probably much easier, but unfortunately, worthless. I'll need some real evidence before I start believing that a major cause of say chronic diarrhea is anxiety and worrying. People shit themselves when they are in mortal danger, not when they are worried.

 

I'm listening in small chunks - an hour of Chalder in one session would leave me lying on the bathroom floor and puking all over the place...

Pretty certain she just said that "Young People are more often affected than older ones." Just after 14.00. Any evidence for that? Was there evidence on a slide?

Goes on about CBT and trials in Netherlands and Oxford (Sharpe) then randomly comes up with this: "You don't have to convert patients to psychologise them... Necessarily." (around 16.35)

Just now I can't bear to listen to any more of her carp. I'm going to try find the IBS study stuff. 39.30

"It doesn't look as significant as it is." (40.44ish)

"We're now doing a 24 months follow up." (42.10ish) I bet you are! Money money money...

Then there's a load of stuff about "trans diagnostic symptoms". This woman has built her whole career on utter non scientific rubbish. Along with a load of others of course.

I'm giving up now as I'd rather sit by the door and look out at my newly opening tulips and listen to some birdsong.

 

Every NHS dietician I have seen has been a waste of space, primarily coz they don't listen and don't offer advice (to me).

The only outcome from meeting with a dietician is a letter to my GP which advises I should limit eating things I have already told them, to their face, that I don't eat, and why. e.g. I almost never eat biscuits, when they've suggesting reducing biscuits I have told them I don't eat them, the GP then gets a letter which includes that I should cut down on biscuit consumption. The same applies to all non biscuit related foods they like to try and discourage use of, my routine diet doesn't include them, but they still write to my GP and say I should eat less of them.

Complete waste of time. They don't listen.

 

I did a transcript a while ago here:
https://www.s4me.info/threads/13-ma...journey-over-30-years.5576/page-3#post-152193

 

I saw an NHS dietician who was helpful over trying to reduce high cholesterol by diet. It worked really well while I actually managed to stick to the diet. Unfortunately I'm not able to now as have so much difficulty finding anything at all that I can face eating. Cholesterol gone back through the roof. But that's not the dietician's fault - her advice was useful and helpful. Of course individual therapists of whatever kind vary a lot.

So sorry @Wonko that you had what sounds like sub-standard advice.

 

Well you should cut down on those biscuits @Wonko. They are full of who knows what like sugar that give you diabetes, palm oil which kills orangutans, and E numbers that gives you cancer...and if you have them with bacon then...well you only have yourself to blame!

The only exception is garibaldi’s because they have currants in them so that’s natural sugar and much better for you.

 

I don't think the telephone-delivered CBT arm self-help manual has been posted yet:
https://docplayer.net/58045265-Acti...for-ibs-regul8-actib-assessing-cognitive.html

 

I just found it annoying and patronising.

I'm not, always, stupid. I identified foods that were likely to be a problem a very long time ago, and part from the odd treat day, or when I am incapable of doing anything else, I simply don't buy them - because most of them are foods I have control issues with, if I have them I will eat them.

I even point out grievous errors in their fact sheets - they don't, for example, seem to realise that all carbs, even complex carbs, get turned into sugars as soon as they are digested (complex carbs just take a little longer to digest, that's all), and if blood glucose is too far out of whack this can be unhelpful, and still lead to the blood sugar roller coaster.

So advising diabetics to eat brown (not even wholemeal) bread, bought from a supermarket (upto 2 tsp of sugar a slice plus being mainly carbs) is just IMO wrong, at least advise people to make their own wholemeal, which has no added sugar. Tell them that carbs are an issue, it's not just sugars.

Telling them to fill up on starchy veg like potatoes, is wrong, potatoes have little nutritional value once you get past the skin. Fill up on veg, even the NHS does not class potatoes a veg nutritionally (i.e. it's not one of your 5 a day).

That sort of thing - drives me nuts that they don't know this stuff and still call themselves dieticians, and get paid for it.

They don't listen, they don't think, they just parrot out the matra scripted 50 odd years ago before some of this stuff was known.

.....and then to write the report in such a way to suggest I am living off nothing but foods I don't actually eat. That's not just unhelpful, it's misleading and dishonest. It's justifying their job when they are clearly totally hopeless at it.

Grrrrr!!!!!!



ETA - so properly trained dieticians and nutritionists, I'm all in favour of that, the NHS needs at least some of them. Maybe if they had some, more people might be successfully treated for things like IBS.

I've seen no evidence that the NHS has any, and stopped asking to see any, or accepting 'invitations' to see one, quite while ago, after having seen ones every year or so for years, always with the results described above.

 

Some more coverage I'll edit in to my first post:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8838369/ibs-psychological-treatment-mental-training/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/ibs-irritable-bowel-syndrome-cbt-therapy-nhs-a8864156.html

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...earchers-think-so_uk_5caefbece4b0a983fce462d0

 

No they don't, they are squashed flies - why else would my mum call them squashed fly biscuits. (Really yummy though, haven't had one in years. Need to be fresh.)

 

@arewenearlythereyet & @Jonathan Edwards I made some the other week. So quick and easy. So much nicer than shop bought. :

 

I tried that in my local services when I had no GP and no medical care to speak of and it's obvious that those kinds of services are basically meant for the lowest common denominator, for people who struggle with boiling water, which makes them pretty much useless for anyone who doesn't survive on a diet of paint chips and candy.

 

Nice...I especially like the portion size

 

Oooh, recipe if possible, pretty please! I love squashed fly biscuits, and it's years since I had one.

 

*Given the amount of coverage the story got, clearly the Science Media Centre (SMC) did quite a briefing job on journalists. A large number of them took the bait

*Trudie Chalder amongst others gave a talk on the paper at the SMC today
http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/c...therapy-cbt-for-irritable-bowel-syndrome-ibs/

*The CBT story for IBS is nothing new, the main spin today was that it was web & telephone based and that it was a large study. My namesake Esther Crawley has been dabbling in online CBT too.

*In comparison ME Action Network UK just seem to send out press releases by email for ME stories in the hope they are read. To get journalists to do your bidding you need to build up a relationship over time.

*I'm sure the SMC lays on a nice buffet with pleasant things to eat & drink from Ocado for ligging journos...

 

Where do you get the flies @Lucibee?

Maybe I should try that. I am the baker of the house but I mostly stick to breads.

Recipe please.

 

Sadly it can be similar to blue cardigans, so invested in a particular worldview that sense loses out.

My cousin had cancer. Her dietary advice was a " healthy balanced diet" which had a base if carbs - complete waffle for a condition that multiplies via fermentation. This is/ was standard NHS advice for cancer sufferers.

Another friend saw a private nutritional therapist - completely different advice, based on an understanding of the process and some nutritional testing ( i don t know specifics).