An Open Letter to BACME re ME/CFS Guide to Therapy 2025

Seconded or twelfthed

Apologies for social mediaishness but my reaction to @Jonathan Edwards response letter is BOOM :emoji_boom:

(It’s like your team going ahead again a couple of minutes after conceding an equaliser)
I also said “boom” and “mic drop “ in my mind as I read!

I wondered how bad the BACME guide was, so I went back and read it. It’s really bad and gets much worse the further into it you go.
 
Rehabilitation, Physio, they are like CBT in that at times and where specified some interaction might be needed but basically that’s true in every illness. So can we stop see in them as “headline news” as if they are core to our managment of ME/CFS?
They are peripheral, at best.
 
Dr Sivan has responded again.

Dear Jonathan
Thanks, great points, agree with most of them. I am conscious of colleagues' inboxes, so I will keep this brief and will not send further emails. I have added comments in blue (bold) text below yours:

Dear Manoj,
As someone trained in rheumatology and rehabilitation, I am quite certain rehabilitation is not the right approach for ME/CFS. Moreover, the patients are sure they do not want rehabilitation, having suffered so much from misguided therapies in the past. The point of our letter was that there still seems to be no insight from BACME into the fact that 'Rehabilitation’ has nothing to offer here - the 'Guide’ even has no identifiable therapy content.
Depends on colleagues understanding about "Rehabilitation". It is defined by WHO as "set of interventions to optimise functioning or improve functioning", and that is 90% of any healthcare activity. A person has hip replacement to reduce pain and improve function - that is rehabilitation. A person with cancer has tumour debulking and chemo for improving symptoms and function - that is rehabilitation too. Your open letter has been signed by a physiotherapist and psychologist - what they do with patients is improve function and that is rehabilitation. If we want to remove rehabilitation from the picture, that means RCP, RCOT, RCP, BPS, and charities all are out of this. I am sure you don't imply this.
ME/CFS is usually long-term, often life-long. It requires careful and repeated assessment for differential diagnosis, plus long-term support, including complex home care and nutritional support for the very sick. The clinical picture and recent genetics point to neural pathways so I suspect that neurology will be the long-term home. Unfortunately, neurologists at Queen Square are only now beginning to show some interest. The situation for children and young people is different - I see no reason not to continue with care under paediatrics and specialist adolescent units.
The set of interventions you describe here is all rehabilitation (according to the WHO ICF taxonomy). Neurology as a home will be great if they are interested. They are the ones referring the cases without proven biomarkers to us in neurorehabilitation.
In my view the conflation with post-infective illness simply adds confusion. The link to infection for ME/CFS is variable at best and makes little impact on understanding of the illness or management. Self-limiting post-infective illness, as for EBV and Covid, has been recognised for decades and I see no evidence for anything being beneficial beyond the passage of time. Symptoms may be similar and a small proportion of people prove to have long-term relapsing or progressive illness. Separating the two is part of the differential diagnostic process mentioned above.
DecodeME showed in 75% cases with ME/CFS, patients perceived the condition to be linked to infection. The other conditions you have listed getting better with time is absolutely untrue and there is adequate evidence to show that in a third of these cases, they become long-term conditions and cannot be differentiated from ME/CFS. Happy to send you all evidence on this (many of these are our own work)
The priority now is for NHS strategy to focus hard on the very severely disabled and especially those still dying from inanition, which is a scandal. The second priority is to fund some effective biological research to get some idea what might be useful treatment. The current situation is a mess, but I am sure a short-term ‘goal setting’ rehabilitation model is not the answer.
You cannot separate out rehabilitation from biological research as they are all integral and complementary. It is like saying we will do the hip replacement but will offer no therapy after surgery. We need both. I agree with your point on need for more biomedical research.
How will HERITAGE develop an evidence-based framework if we have no reliable data on efficacy?
HERITAGE is service delivery research not an interventional clinical trial.
In summary, we are all saying the same thing - we need biomarker research to form the basis of medical interventions (agree fully with that - we are looking at immunology and auto-antibody profiles in our ongoing research in Leeds, which will form the basis of immunomodulatory drugs).But we absolutely need rehabilitation - depends on how we perceive the word and whether we have fully understood the meaning of the term. The wider team needs to include basic science researchers, medics, nurses and allied health professionals - we need them all to solve complex issues patients have.
 
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I think it's very telling that his response was to twist what the letter said into 'we need to make a home for MECFS in rehabilitation'
And we defined rehabilitation in our letter..... A concept that often means different things to different people.

By what evidence-based methods does he propose recovery and return to good functioning and health? Hmmm. Some people just cannot get their head around that there is no objective evidence of improvement or recovery by any 'rehabilitation' method for pwME. The converse is deeply conditioned into some. Sigh.
 
Dr Sivan has responded again. I am not sure what, if anything to say at this point.

Dear Jonathan
Thanks, great points, agree with most of them. I am conscious of colleagues' inboxes, so I will keep this brief and will not send further emails. I have added comments in blue (bold) text below yours:

Dear Manoj,
As someone trained in rheumatology and rehabilitation, I am quite certain rehabilitation is not the right approach for ME/CFS. Moreover, the patients are sure they do not want rehabilitation, having suffered so much from misguided therapies in the past. The point of our letter was that there still seems to be no insight from BACME into the fact that 'Rehabilitation’ has nothing to offer here - the 'Guide’ even has no identifiable therapy content.
Depends on colleagues understanding about "Rehabilitation". It is defined by WHO as "set of interventions to optimise functioning or improve functioning", and that is 90% of any healthcare activity. A person has hip replacement to reduce pain and improve function - that is rehabilitation. A person with cancer has tumour debulking and chemo for improving symptoms and function - that is rehabilitation too. Your open letter has been signed by a physiotherapist and psychologist - what they do with patients is improve function and that is rehabilitation. If we want to remove rehabilitation from the picture, that means RCP, RCOT, RCP, BPS, and charities all are out of this. I am sure you don't imply this.
ME/CFS is usually long-term, often life-long. It requires careful and repeated assessment for differential diagnosis, plus long-term support, including complex home care and nutritional support for the very sick. The clinical picture and recent genetics point to neural pathways so I suspect that neurology will be the long-term home. Unfortunately, neurologists at Queen Square are only now beginning to show some interest. The situation for children and young people is different - I see no reason not to continue with care under paediatrics and specialist adolescent units.
The set of interventions you describe here is all rehabilitation (according to the WHO ICF taxonomy). Neurology as a home will be great if they are interested. They are the ones referring the cases without proven biomarkers to us in neurorehabilitation.
In my view the conflation with post-infective illness simply adds confusion. The link to infection for ME/CFS is variable at best and makes little impact on understanding of the illness or management. Self-limiting post-infective illness, as for EBV and Covid, has been recognised for decades and I see no evidence for anything being beneficial beyond the passage of time. Symptoms may be similar and a small proportion of people prove to have long-term relapsing or progressive illness. Separating the two is part of the differential diagnostic process mentioned above.
DecodeME showed in 75% cases with ME/CFS, patients perceived the condition to be linked to infection. The other conditions you have listed getting better with time is absolutely untrue and there is adequate evidence to show that in a third of these cases, they become long-term conditions and cannot be differentiated from ME/CFS. Happy to send you all evidence on this (many of these are our own work)
The priority now is for NHS strategy to focus hard on the very severely disabled and especially those still dying from inanition, which is a scandal. The second priority is to fund some effective biological research to get some idea what might be useful treatment. The current situation is a mess, but I am sure a short-term ‘goal setting’ rehabilitation model is not the answer.
You cannot separate out rehabilitation from biological research as they are all integral and complementary. It is like saying we will do the hip replacement but will offer no therapy after surgery. We need both. I agree with your point on need for more biomedical research.
How will HERITAGE develop an evidence-based framework if we have no reliable data on efficacy?
HERITAGE is service delivery research not an interventional clinical trial.
In summary, we are all saying the same thing - we need biomarker research to form the basis of medical interventions (agree fully with that - we are looking at immunology and auto-antibody profiles in our ongoing research in Leeds, which will form the basis of immunomodulatory drugs).But we absolutely need rehabilitation - depends on how we perceive the word and whether we have fully understood the meaning of the term. The wider team needs to include basic science researchers, medics, nurses and allied health professionals - we need them all to solve complex issues patients have.

Is it wrong to say 'supply(or supplier?)-led response' as a descriptor of this?
 
It is defined by WHO as "set of interventions to optimise functioning or improve functioning", and that is 90% of any healthcare activity.

Not when there is no useful intervention that could be made. That wouldn't be called 'rehab', it'd be called a waste of time and resources and an unnecessary burden on patients.

'Unethical and unjustifiable interference' would be a better fit.
 
Dr Sivan has responded again. I am not sure what, if anything to say at this point.
The set of interventions you describe here is all rehabilitation (according to the WHO ICF taxonomy).
Which demonstrates how useless the definition is, which I pointed out above!
The other conditions you have listed getting better with time is absolutely untrue and there is adequate evidence to show that in a third of these cases, they become long-term conditions and cannot be differentiated from ME/CFS. Happy to send you all evidence on this (many of these are our own work)
Is he seriously saying that most EBV and Covid cases do not get better over time?

And please ask for the data on how many that develop ME/CFS from those infections.
You cannot separate out rehabilitation from biological research as they are all integral and complementary. It is like saying we will do the hip replacement but will offer no therapy after surgery. We need both.
Is he trying to not understand what you said on purpose? You can’t offer post-treatment rehab when there are no treatments!
 
Which demonstrates how useless the definition is, which I pointed out above!

Is he seriously saying that most EBV and Covid cases do not get better over time?

And please ask for the data on how many that develop ME/CFS from those infections.

Is he trying to not understand what you said on purpose? You can’t offer post-treatment rehab when there are no treatments!

He is being effective at what I guess is one aim of his, which is distracting attention away from the letter critiquing the BACME therapy doc.

It isn't like anyone hasn't heard the content template from his first reply-before-reading before. And he hasn't even confirmed he has had the grace to read that open letter yet.


And the line from him early on in his reseponse, copied to all:

If we want to remove rehabilitation from the picture, that means RCP, RCOT, RCP, BPS, and charities all are out of this. I am sure you don't imply this.

makes me think of that 'get a party line out to all early off the blocks before any more junior individuals in the hierarchy respond or read' type feeling

It reads pretty close to a warning if it isn't intended as that.
 
DecodeME showed in 75% cases with ME/CFS, patients perceived the condition to be linked to infection.
Definitely a fact then.

He is being effective at what I guess is one aim of his, which is distracting attention away from the letter critiquing the BACME therapy doc.
I'm genuinely surprised at how much of an idiot he's willing to make himself look in order to do it, though.
 
you cannot rehab your way out of something you haven't treated.
This.

And if there are no effective treatments then, if needed, relevant to the patient then some support to adjust to living with if people are distressed. BUT this is not rehabilitation (aimed at recovering function and return to health) and must only be carried out under the context of no expectation of significantly reduced symptoms (although that may happen) AND it should never be seen as treatment or a treatment substitute. Support, whether psychological or physical is support.

Overreaching and oversell is misleading.

Clearly defined language and expectations is needed for the future. Professionals can be speaking at cross purposes due to lack of clear definitions.
 
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Rehab is not a replacement for treating the underlying cause [...] You are trying to reinflate a tire without patching the puncture
I have been trying to think of a good, simple metaphor for this for years and this is perfect.

You can’t offer post-treatment rehab when there are no treatments!
Yeah, it's really striking how every rehab example he can think of involves a major treatment that actually solves the underlying problem and the significance of this just doesn't seem to be landing.
 
Dr Sivan has responded again. I am not sure what, if anything to say at this point.
It is defined by WHO as "set of interventions to optimise functioning or improve functioning", and that is 90% of any healthcare activity. A person has hip replacement to reduce pain and improve function - that is rehabilitation. A person with cancer has tumour debulking and chemo for improving symptoms and function - that is rehabilitation too.
So all medicine = 'rehabilitation'.

This reminds me of when PACE redefined 'improvement' to mean 'recovery'.
 
You cannot separate out rehabilitation from biological research as they are all integral and complementary. It is like saying we will do the hip replacement but will offer no therapy after surgery. We need both
This seems nonsensical.

Rehab and biological research are complementary? I think the researchers can continue their work in the lab just fine without subjecting patients to unevidenced reatments.

Biological research is like a hip replacement? What..?
 
Rehabilitation is defined by most people (and dictionaries) as restoring someone to previous health or to normal life. More widely it’s about restoring a thing to its previous state or attempts to do so. It’s intrinsically linked to ideas of re-establishment or renewal.

Extending the definition seems to only to unnecessarily confuse.

Edit: Here we go, etymology from the OED since some like TLAs
Of multiple origins. Partly a borrowing from French. Partly a borrowing from Latin.
Etymons: French réhabilitation; Latin rehabilitation-, rehabilitatio.
Partly < Middle French, French réhabilitation restoration to former rights, privileges, or status (1401), re-establishment of (a person's) reputation (1762; < réhabiliter rehabilitate v. + ‑ation ‑ationsuffix), and partly < post-classical Latin rehabilitation-, rehabilitatio re-establishment, renewal (1439) < rehabilitat-, past participial stem of rehabilitare rehabilitate v. + classical Latin ‑iō ‑ionsuffix1; compare ‑ation suffix.
 
In my view the conflation with post-infective illness simply adds confusion. The link to infection for ME/CFS is variable at best and makes little impact on understanding of the illness or management. Self-limiting post-infective illness, as for EBV and Covid, has been recognised for decades and I see no evidence for anything being beneficial beyond the passage of time. Symptoms may be similar and a small proportion of people prove to have long-term relapsing or progressive illness. Separating the two is part of the differential diagnostic process mentioned above.
DecodeME showed in 75% cases with ME/CFS, patients perceived the condition to be linked to infection. The other conditions you have listed getting better with time is absolutely untrue and there is adequate evidence to show that in a third of these cases, they become long-term conditions and cannot be differentiated from ME/CFS. Happy to send you all evidence on this (many of these are our own work)
There is a clear link between infections and ME/CFS type illnesses. We see similar responses to all sorts of infections such as Q fever, Ross River fever, EBV infections, Covid-19, Ebola, probably Lyme disease.... I don't think we have good evidence to say that there is not some commonality of mechanism at play for the people who have ME/CFS symptoms for 3 months after an infection and people whose ME/CFS symptoms continue on for longer. There may well be other causes, but too many people point to an infection as the start of their illness to ignore infections as a major trigger.

Even if you don't agree about that Jonathan, I think good arguments can be made to support the idea that ME/CFS is a post-infective illness. I think Sivan may latch onto this as a distraction and win support if the argument is pursued with him.

As for the rest of Sivan's response, ugh.

It seems that in Sivan's mind rehabilitation = medicine.

You cannot separate out rehabilitation from biological research as they are all integral and complementary.
He even seems to imply that rehabilitation is indistinguishable from biological research. We might as well communicate in mime if words can have whatever meanings are convenient.

In summary, we are all saying the same thing - we need biomarker research to form the basis of medical interventions (agree fully with that - we are looking at immunology and auto-antibody profiles in our ongoing research in Leeds, which will form the basis of immunomodulatory drugs).But we absolutely need rehabilitation
No, Dr Sivan. We definitely are not all saying the same thing. We don't want what you are selling - it doesn't work and it causes harm. Please find something else to occupy your time because you certainly aren't helping us.
 
It is defined by WHO as "set of interventions to optimise functioning or improve functioning", and that is 90% of any healthcare activity. A person has hip replacement to reduce pain and improve function - that is rehabilitation. A person with cancer has tumour debulking and chemo for improving symptoms and function - that is rehabilitation too. Your open letter has been signed by a physiotherapist and psychologist - what they do with patients is improve function and that is rehabilitation.

Whether or not we accept the definition of rehabilitation as '90% of any healthcare activity', the important thing is that 'healthcare activity' shouldn't be ineffective or harmful, and that's the point of the open letter (which he hasn't got round to addressing).
 
Jonathan Edwards said:
Dr Sivan has responded again. I am not sure what, if anything to say at this point.
It is defined by WHO as "set of interventions to optimise functioning or improve functioning", and that is 90% of any healthcare activity. A person has hip replacement to reduce pain and improve function - that is rehabilitation. A person with cancer has tumour debulking and chemo for improving symptoms and function - that is rehabilitation too.
So all medicine = 'rehabilitation'.

This reminds me of when PACE redefined 'improvement' to mean 'recovery'.

Yeah that cancer example is a bit weird for someone selling the department of rehab instead of any specialist medicine dept to be using.

Is he saying physical and rehabillitation medicine as a specialism has become capable of diagnosing cancer and delivering tumour debulking and chemo suddenly?

And isn't hip replacement instead of hip rehabillitation because a hip can't be rehabillitated?

I know this is AI but:
People have hip replacements primarily to relieve severe, chronic hip pain and improve mobility caused by damaged, worn-out joints. The most common reason is osteoarthritis, though rheumatoid arthritis, injuries, and bone conditions like osteonecrosis also necessitate the procedure. It is generally considered when non-surgical methods fail and pain hinders daily life, such as walking or sleeping

It feels like there is deliberate playing on word-meaning going on.

I don't believe either someone with a broken hip or potential cancer should only be seen by specialists in physical and rehabillitation medicine and not have their medical issue investigated and if possible treated by a specialism who both wants and can do this properly. Neither area relies on the specialism of 'physical and rehab medicine' to do research into the biomedical causes.

So what is he talking about?
 
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