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ACTIB trial (Assessing Cognitive behavioural Therapy in Irritable Bowel): a multicentre randomised controlled trial, 2015, Chalder et al

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS Research' started by Sly Saint, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    From 2015 but to be presented in a talk in July at the Society for Academic Primary Care conference:
    https://sapc.ac.uk/conference/2018

    https://sapc.ac.uk/conference/2018/...cognitive-behavioural-therapy-irritable-bowel

    one of the co-authors is Susan Windgassen (!):giggle:
     
  2. alktipping

    alktipping Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    more self report forms after brainwashing by therapist mmm so much space for bias/bs
     
  3. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    IBS - yet another medical condition that the medical profession can't (be bothered to) find real reasons for, so blame the patients' mental health. It is also a really good diagnosis for any doctor with any patient with a pain vaguely in the gut region. I'm sure it reduces the work load substantially.
     
  4. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Think this is might be a 'spin off' :
    Patients’ perspectives on GP interactions after cognitive behavioural therapy for refractory IBS: a qualitative study in UK primary and secondary care

    Alice Sibelli, Rona Moss-Morris, Trudie Chalder, Felicity L Bishop, Sula Windgassen and Hazel Everitt

    https://bjgp.org/content/68/674/e654

    CBT, the solution to the staff shortage in the NHS(?)

    "Only CBT participants reported a shared responsibility with their doctors concerning symptom management and an intention to reduce health-seeking behaviour."
     
  5. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Does this mean what it seems to mean. My translation: Only CBT participants had started blaming themselves if they didn't improve, and reported they would give up bothering the doctor and trying to get better.

    Is this supposed to be a good outcome?

    :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
     
    andypants, alktipping, Hutan and 9 others like this.
  6. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    When this whole IAPT project is understood as a cost-cutting measure by providing cheap alternative to medical care, it is definitely a good outcome according to them and everything they say and do starts to make sense.

    There ain't no cheaper patients for a health care system than those who have stopped seeking care. Massively more expensive overall for society, but on the single balance sheet of medical services, it definitely gives the illusion that it is a bargain.
     
    alktipping, fossil, Hutan and 6 others like this.
  7. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    God forbid that patients might seek ways of getting healthy!
     
  8. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Sly Saint and adambeyoncelowe like this.
  9. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Cost effectiveness of therapist delivered cognitive behavioural therapy and web-based self-management in irritable bowel syndrome: the ACTIB randomised trial
    https://kclpure.kcl.ac.uk/portal/en...al(9326c129-3d3f-4d89-a74a-f06d666e007c).html

    @dave30th
     
    MEMarge and Andy like this.
  10. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Working with completely fictitious numbers, perfectly normal. Triple floating point precision on feelings and rainbows. This is what peak lying with statistics looks like.

    In hindsight setting up a system where they are always right no matter what will look foolish, but to be fair it looks no more foolish than it obviously looked from the start. The damn scientific method was invented exactly to stop this, and back we are to pre-science ways. But now there are decades of sunk cost and careers and egos on the line so the lies go on and on because these people aren't so smart and things got out of hand.

    Some primitive societies used to sacrifice people to imaginary gods. Modern medicine does the same but for imaginary savings. "Savings" which obviously cost far more down the line. Even if it was just for money it would be insulting enough, but the savings are entirely fictitious. What a dystopian nightmare they created, exchanging lives for mediocre careers.
     
    Mithriel, Arnie Pye and Wyva like this.

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