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A Qualitative Study of the Views of Patients With [MUS] on The BodyMind Approach®: Employing Embodied Methods and Arts.., 2020, Payne and Brooks

Discussion in 'Other psychosomatic news and research' started by Andy, Dec 29, 2020.

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  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    Full title: A Qualitative Study of the Views of Patients With Medically Unexplained Symptoms on The BodyMind Approach®: Employing Embodied Methods and Arts Practices for Self-Management
    Open access, https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.554566/full
     
    Hutan, Obermann, Woolie and 2 others like this.
  2. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I read it until I couldn't stomach the constant buzzwords and pseudoprofundity and clever attempt to secretly cure conversion disorder anymore. It's not worth reading.
     
    Hutan, Michelle, Lisa108 and 17 others like this.
  3. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Oh dear me.
     
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  4. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    So is this another lot of psychobabblers wanting their share of the lucrative IAPT market. Another way of diverting sick people from actually getting medical help and persuading them they just have to think differently and all will be well. And if their symptoms remain, it's their fault. :sick:

    Edit: I started reading the detail. It's even worse than I thought.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
    Hutan, Michelle, Lisa108 and 10 others like this.
  5. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    What is this BodyMind Approach with a registered trade mark which does not provide any financial or commercial conflict of interests?
     
    Hutan, Lisa108, Milo and 5 others like this.
  6. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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    Helen Payne, nothing to hope from her.
    We've talked about one of her videos here. That's one of the dumbest and unevidenced thing I've ever watched.

    She says about the MUS patients "they just keep going back to the GP, every day, every single day" and that tey can get better with "one nostril breathing, relaxing, drawing animals and singing nursery rhymes".

    Edit grammar
     
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  7. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    If just one of my nostrils could do that then I would have been able to have a career in kids entertainment....
     
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  8. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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    In fact I read somewhere that most of the time we naturally breathe with one nostril, without even noticing. And that we regularly switch to one another.
    Found this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_cycle
     
    Lisa108, shak8, Woolie and 4 others like this.
  9. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Somebody read a little too much Deepak Chopra. One is too many. One anything.
     
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  10. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

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    So, the conclusion I drew from this is:

    If a researcher uses a qualitative method, they can write a whole paper on themes that align with their own hopes and beliefs, without ever mentioning any of those that might run counter to them.

    Reading the paper, you would go away thinking that there was unanimous satisfaction with this "body-mind" programme, and I think this is extremely unlikely with any programme, no matter how amazing. So looks very fishy to me.

    In Psychology, qualitative methodologies are often not accorded the same respect as other methods, and the people who work with them often feel undervalued. I personally think that qual methods are extremely important. But this paper demonstrates the limits of those methods. You absolutely cannot use them to assess the effectiveness of a programme that you're heavily invested in, because there are no universally agreed checks and balances within the methods. Which leaves them wide open to researcher bias and expectations.

    Even the shitty questionnaires the BPSers use at least allow for the possibility of disconfirmation.

    To me, this research reads like an ad for a patented weight loss programme, the type that includes (carefully selected) customer endorsements. No, its worse than that, because there is no legal requirement to place a warning underneath those endorsements, saying "individual results may vary" ;)
     
  11. Milo

    Milo Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I have no words.


    Edit to add:

    1) interestingly her editors and reviewers are located in Israel. Does that mean anything?

    2)Helen Payne published this last year:


    Medically Unexplained Symptoms and Attachment Theory: The BodyMind Approach

    This article discusses how The BodyMind Approach®(TBMA) addresses insecure attachment styles in medically unexplained symptoms (MUS). Insecure attachment styles are associated with adverse childhood experiences (ACEs) and MUS (Adshead and Guthrie, 2015) and affect sufferers’ capacity to self-manage. The article goes on to make a new hypothesis to account for TBMA’s effectiveness (Payne and Brooks, 2017), that is, it addresses insecure attachment styles, which may be present in some MUS sufferers, leading to their capacity to self-manage. Three insecure attachment styles (dismissive, pre-occupied and fearful) associated with MUS are discussed. TBMA is described and explanations provided of how TBMA has been specifically designed to support people’s insecure attachment styles. Three key concepts to support insecure attachment styles involved in the content of TBMA are identified and debated: (a) emotional regulation; (b) safety; and (c) bodymindfulness. There is a rationale for the design of TBMA as opposed to psychological interventions for this population. The programme’s structure, facilitation and content, takes account of the three insecure attachment styles above. Examples of how TBMA works with their specific characteristics are presented. TBMA has been tested and found to be effective during delivery in the United Kingdom National Health Service (NHS). Improved self-management has potential to reduce costs for the NHS and in General Practitioner time and resources
    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.01818/full

    3) paging @Hilda Bastian and @Carolyn Wilshire... there may be others...



     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  12. Milo

    Milo Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Ok I have more to say. This part is particularly cruel and insensitive:

    and then this indicates where they are going with this...

     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  13. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    And if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

    Also if the Moon were made of cheese we could all feast for eternity, therefore world hunger has been solved so let's stop all efforts, there will be no questions this is obviously REAL SCIENCETM.
     
  14. shak8

    shak8 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I see where all this health psychology is going, all the emphasis on mind-body, all the watering down of intellect, and clumping and lumping the real with their imaginary.

    Why yes, there are money-making opportunities arising from the MUS designation, a nation of practitioners shall arise.

    Are we as a culture just running out of empathy with those who suffer so that doctors, health psychologists, therapists, and psychiatrists can feel more competent and get more job satisfaction by dumping the difficult to understand into the sewer of MUS?

    It is ivory tower imbecility, basking in conceptualizing nonsense, a lack of clinical acumen, a huge missing chunk of empathy and it's intellectually dishonest, wrong, wrong-headed and I assume, headed for the grave in the next five years, I hope.
     
  15. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    This research appears to have taken well over a decade from approval to completion. I waded through some of the paper.

    I noticed, among many other things, that patients enrolled in these groups had a half hour preliminary interview to assess suitability. I am imagining it was sold to them as free sessions of enjoyable things like art and dance in a mutually supportive environment where they would be with others suffering similar symptoms.

    That could be appealing on all sorts of grounds for reasons nothing to do with any alleged therapeutic effect. Those for whom such activities are unappealing would not join, so would not be counted as therapeutic failures, nor was there any control group. The obvious thing would be to offer parallel groups with the art, dance and social support without all the body-mind psychobabble.
     
  16. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I find it impossible to believe that this ever really happens. Apart from anything else, if I ask for an appointment to see a doctor I get given one that can be 3 - 6 weeks in the future. It will never be "tomorrow".

    Edit : I'm talking about getting an appointment pre-Covid. I have no idea how to see a doctor since Covid started.
     
  17. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think that is what they call evidence based medicine
     
  18. Milo

    Milo Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If i get sick, i want to see a doctor. I do not want to be in a circle talking about my emotion and psycho-babble stuff. I do not want to have to meditate each and every time there is a meeting and i do not want to hear about how someone felt liberated after dancing in last week’s session. I do not want to have my disease diluted into something where all of the dead end diseases end up, where terms like ‘catastrophizing’ and ‘somatizing’ are commonly implied.

    i’ll be damned if this stuff flies for the Long-COVID ER junior doctors who got sick and land in that kind of health care.
     
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  19. DigitalDrifter

    DigitalDrifter Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is an example of medical Gerrymandering (Moving the goalposts, dishonest definitions). It's interesting that they admit they mean psychosomatic by saying MUS. I wish we didn't have to deal with the outdated belief that anything we can't explain is psychosomatic still in 2020. Lets hope #LongCovid changes things.

    I agree that qualitative outcomes can be useful where quantitative fails, sometimes it's like putting a square peg in a round hole.
     
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