Would you say that you suffer from debilitating fatigue or extreme fatigue?

Hoopoe

Senior Member (Voting Rights)
In many articles, ME/CFS is described as being characterized by debilitating or extreme fatigue. I don't recognize myself in this description. What about you? How would you describe the illness to strangers?

I've been wondering lately how much these descriptions contribute to misunderstanding and stigma.

I do suffer from chronic fatigue, but in a rested state it is mild, so calling it debilitating or extreme seems misleading. It is also not merely fatigue, there's a constant sensation of feeling mildly unwell. If these sensations remained like this, I could push through, but they get increasingly worse with ordinary activities of daily living and soon a point is reached where it becomes painful to continue and performance at the task is degraded (sometimes beyond the point where it makes sense to continue). So there is a certain dose of exertion that is tolerated.

Sometimes I'll also get carried away by enthusiasm or good feelings that mask the underlying fatigue malaise, and do too much. I never feel so unwell that I couldn't push myself further but it becomes stressful, painful, unpleasant that doing so feels like an act of self-harm. And I know that if I push too much, the next day I will wake up feeling unwell right away, with much less or no tolerated dose of activity (and potentially even worse than on the previous day). Sometimes I want to do something despite knowing it would trigger milder PEM. But I never intentionally repeat activities that cause more marked PEM because it's never worth it.

So my illness is not a state of "extreme fatigue" unrelated to activity. It's a balance act between activity and rest encompassing the previous days and the next days, a compromise between what I can tollerate and what I want and need to do. It's a game of optimizing my sustainable performance, not an inability to deliver peak performance or a state of being crushed by extreme fatigue.
 
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Your description resonates with me too. I think reducing an experience, that healthy people have never had, to one word "fatigue" completely miscommunicates the experience. I cringe at those leading sentences in articles because they seem to trivialise it. Not sure if there is one word or even a couple of words that would describe it.

I am just remembering Ed Yong's article, I think it was one of the rare ones to give a sense of it. Will have to re-read it as don't remember now how he managed to do it.
 
It's the combination of rapid fatigability and rapid increase on exertion in other debilitating symptoms such as OI, muscle weakness and pain that combine to make ME/CFS so debilitating.

If my symptoms and ability to funtion stayed the same all the time, whether moving or not, then I could put up with the constant symptoms of being drained, exhausted, nauseous, and in pain. It's not just about symptoms, it's about ability to continue functioning.

So I would say I have a debilitation and disabling illness, not just debilitating fatigue.

I tihnk the 'unrelated to activity' bit is about having symptoms all the time, not just after exertion.
 
In the German speaking countries the focus of patient's and families' lobbying, doctors and the media have been on the severe and very severe patients lately. I think that that's the reason why "debilitating fatigue" has become one of the most important concepts to describe symptoms of ME.

In many of the documentaries you see people lying in bed and barely be able to get out again. Hence they must be very "tired".

Personally, I prefer the concept of pathological exhaustion to refer to the sensations that seem to be caused by mitochondrial dysfunction. But I also experience classic fatigue that is typical in patients who had brain inflammation after longer episodes or intensive short flares that go up to the frontal lobe.

For us mild and moderate patients this is a bit unfair because our experiences are very difficult too but rarely covered in the media. However, politically I think it is the right strategy to focus mainly on the severe because the situation of the severe patients and – if they have – their families is often unbearable. And the public begins to realise that too.
 
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In the German speaking countries the focus of patient's and families' lobbying, doctors and the media have been on the severe and very severe patients lately. I think that that's the reason why "debilitating fatigue" has become one of the most important concepts to describe symptoms of ME.

In many of the documentaries you see people lying in bed and barely be able to get out again. Hence they must be very "tired".

Personally, I prefer the concept of pathological exhaustion to refer to the sensations that seem to be caused by mitochondrial dysfunction. But I also experience classic fatigue that is typical in patients who had brain inflammation after longer episodes or intensive short flares that go up to the frontal lobe.

For us mild and moderate patients this is a bit unfair because our experiences are very difficult too but rarely covered in the media. However, politically I think it is the right strategy to focus mainly on the severe because the situation of the severe patients and – if they have – their families is often unbearable. And the public begins to realise that too.

I agree with an initial focus on the very severe is important. I suspect the BPS focus on the mild and mild end of the moderate spectrum has been a big part in their getting away with mis characterisation of our condition as psychogenic.
 
All BPS doctors I have met seem to think all my symptoms are just fatigue that doesn't resolve from rest. So if it doesn't resolve, they seem to think it also doesn't get worse.
This is obviously not correct, but it makes sense to me, that with that bit of information GET would be the solution

I would say my main symptom is malaise, however that is still not what debilitates me. Its the pain that just slowly gets worse and worse whenever I do something, that makes me housebound, and prevents me from being able to do the things I wish I could.
 
Neither, really.

It's more like extreme fatiguability, pain, and feeling as if I have a virus.

I rarely use the word fatigue because it doesn't really describe my experience. I do get it on Day 2 of PEM (and subsequent days if it's a bad one), but where I can avoid tipping into PEM, there isn't much fatigue. Just very limited capacity to do anything.
 
that's the reason why "debilitating fatigue" has become one of the most important concepts to describe symptoms of ME.
I’m very severe. I’ve been extremely severe in the past. I’ve never really identified with that description tbh.

I feel debilitatingly ill. Out of it. But fatigue not really? I have debilitating fatiguability. And I definitely have exhaustion sometimes but its not a constant.

I agree with @Peter T and @Alinda I think the focus on fatigue is a leftover from the minimising “chronic fatigue syndrome” concept where the core of the illness was defined as chronic fatigue and PEM was sidelined, which was much easier to interpret psychosomatically or psychiatrically.
 
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I think a lot of the separate symptoms can feel like "fatigue", but as I have learned more about my symptoms, the more I see them as separate symptoms. If someone had asked this question 3 years ago, I would have said I only have fatigue and some pain.

OI makes me feel out of breath, like im deadly exhausted and about to pass out. I would have called that fatigue before!
My muscles feel weak, and they feel like I just exercised very heavily, so that feeling is connected to fatigue as well.
My brain is foggy, and is functioning on the same level as it would after skipping 2 nights.

But if I ask my healthy friends what "fatigue" means, they would not mention these symptoms. They would probably say tiredness is the same or tightly linked to fatigue, which seems to only be like that for a small group of people with me/cfs.

Someone mild or moderate, that is in the first year of their illness, would probably just shortly explain this as fatigued. If you then are talking to a doctor that instantly isn't very interested in what the fatigue means, you would never get that deeply into it together.
 
It's more like extreme fatiguability, pain, and feeling as if I have a virus.

That is pretty much how I feel when I'm feeling very 'fatigued'. I don't experience pain, but I get achy/sore/stiffness and not up to standing or walk for too long. It passes after a few days. When I actually have a reactivated virus, I feel out of breath easily with other symptoms, like heart racing after only exerting myself a little.

I've been feeling pretty good for the last month. I'm out more and walking in the evenings.

I've had ME for 34 years and I just go with it now.
 
Coming from a slightly different angle,
I’ve always said sick, not tired. It's one of the reasons I reject the Chronic Fatigue syndrome framing. I didn’t go to my doctor after a 2 weeks nasty illness saying I’m really tired, even if some do, I went to him after I’d failed to recover as a 16 year old and still felt ill, including of course the weakness and fatiguability (but as you say on good days, you don’t have overwhelming sense of exhaustion if you are mild to moderate). At the immediate time, the most strong symptom had been neck pain /migraines, and i was diagnosed with a neck injury.

If we are using the term extreme fatigue for mild-moderate cases, the severe cases are also left with no language, so debilitating fatigue would be better as that allows a spectrum. It’s not necessarily a suitable term for more mild cases, for the reasons &patterns of illness described . As you get to very severe ME where people have crippling weakness AFFECTING SELF CARE and normal cognitive function, sensory sensitivity & pain, bordering on paralysis in all domains & being extremely unwell ON EXERTION, then the framing of “fatigue”, whether with the adjective extreme or not, is problematic because it is too weak/ reductionist/ benign. I therefore have a contrary view to the post above that says the focus on fatigue/ tiredness is coming *from* the severely affected - when the severely affected have particularly resisted a fatigue framing
 
In German we have additionally the medical concept of "Abgeschlagenheit" (hit-off-ness) It is standardly used for the exhaustion that accompanies all sorts of viral infections. Since I've always believed that herpes virus reactivation is at the cause of the ME/CFS-type that I have and it is even pretty well understood biomedically how viruses are capable to induce mitochondrial dysfunction that leads to experiencing this kind of exhaustion I've always used this term to describe that sensation to my doctors.
 
Then the letter from my ME/CFS specialist comes back, claiming that I described experiencing "fatigue". LOL

As I said above I do use "fatigue" to describe the tiredness that I experience after long or short and severe episodes/flares with brain involvement. This kind of fatigue is known to be neuroimmunologically induced to protect the brain from over-exertion while regenerative self-repair is going on.

 
I suffer from fatigue after I do strenuous physical activity. My ME doesn't cause that sort of fatigue; it causes a "fatigue-like symptom". My symptom fits some of the other descriptions here, such as "malaise", "feeling achy (which discourages activity)", "flu-like".

So my answer to the title is: neither.
 
Abgeschlagenheit

I speak English but sorely tempted to start saying I'm suffering from "Abgeschlagenheit". It would avoid the misunderstandings associated with "fatigue" and stop people thinking they understand what they don't....

If they're so inclined they might even be open to a more detailed discussion (time and situation permitting).
 
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