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Which paper said CBT/GET should encourage participants to no longer see themselves as CFS patients

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS Research' started by Michiel Tack, May 31, 2019.

  1. Michiel Tack

    Michiel Tack Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think I remember that one of the CBT or GET trials actively encouraged participants to no longer regard themselves as CFS patients. I thought I was confident it was the Dutch team of Bleijenberg and Knoop as they aim for a full recovery. But going through their papers, I can't seem the find it. Anyone happen to know what I'm searching for?

    Many thanks in advance,

    (I've added this thread to the tag "who-said" which seems intended to help others find references of citations or papers they know exist but can't seem to find at the moment).

    [Edit: I initially wrote "to longer" regard or see themselves... both in this post and the title. I meant "to no longer" regard themselves. Thanks to @MeSci for pointing this out.]
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  2. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  3. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    FINE possibly? Maybe not the same but the model of "there is no disease" and "you are on your way to recovery by just coming here" is basically the same idea.
     
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  4. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It's really remarkable how completely dumb this all is when they drop the pretense and say what they actually mean. What a load of nonsense.

    The stupid is seriously on par with the worst of Facebook conspiracy groups. You can teach smart people but you can't make them wise.
     
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  5. Michiel Tack

    Michiel Tack Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks @Dolphin !

    I could hug you right now.

    Not that this is that important but it's darn frustrating to know that the citation you're looking for is out there somewhere but you can't find it, even after long searching.
     
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  6. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I found that paper very interesting as it shows how deluded they are and how they clearly don't listen to patients. I really don't believe that there are many patients who could increase activity this quickly:

     
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  7. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    No problem. Thanks very much for all the great work you are doing on the literature
     
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  8. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Also, I've heard people say that while they could understand the graded exercise therapy could harm someone, CBT is just talking and so couldn't. This is an extract from a CBT manual:
     
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  9. DokaGirl

    DokaGirl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    CBT and coping - how does one cope with ME, stigma, ghastly, and cruel friends and family, small and large problems normally encountered in life, sick family members, sick pets, broken vehicles, disability structures that are dreadful, reduced income, medics who don't understand, don't believe, and can't provide treatment anyways, politicians who are complacent and uncaring, a medical education structure that has never heard of ME, and immediately slots pwME into MUS?

    Yeah....CBT will help with al that! Sure!
     
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  10. Sid

    Sid Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Um yeah ok geniuses and what if the non-patient patient has 'incidental' flu-like symptoms all the time or every time they exert themselves like by walking around the block? Normal and temporary fluctuations of the body my ***.
     
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  11. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Can't tell if they are crazy or just dishonest or very stupid.

    The reason patients see themselves as patients is because they are sick. They cannot function normally.
     
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  12. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It's a case of "existence precedes essence".

    This reminds me of the difficulty we have over the word "fatigue". We all agree that there is something in need of description but cannot agree on the adequacy of the word. The sensations are still there whatever we do, or don't, call them.

    It seems impossible to have discourse with these people. They are clearly from a different planet.
     
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  13. James Morris-Lent

    James Morris-Lent Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    You mean in just one year of treatment I won't be taking six four-hour-and-twenty-minute walks per day? Maybe if I run I can fit it all in.
     
  14. feeb

    feeb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Oh, that's easy, you just use some positive affirmations and jump on a circle for a bit. Works a treat, there's a paper about it and everything. Just fish out a couple of thousand from down the back of the sofa and Phil will teach it you.
     
  15. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think you mean 'no longer' as in 'not any more'? Ditto in the title?
     
  16. Michiel Tack

    Michiel Tack Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks. Does anyone know how to change a title?
     
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  17. DokaGirl

    DokaGirl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @feeb

    Yes! The jump on a circle bit makes me think of the game Twister. Maybe that's where the idea of jumping on a circle for the LP came from. Ha!
     
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  18. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    You should be able to open 'Thread Tools' near the top, and choose 'Edit Title'.
     
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  19. Michiel Tack

    Michiel Tack Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks
     
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  20. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is so ridiculous. I already walk for 3-5 minutes about 5-10x per day because otherwise I get too much pain in my legs. I move slowly but I know it's important. I also stretch 2-3x per day for the same reason. In the winter I have no choice but to shovel snow. Only on my worst days do I lower this but even then I try as much as I can within my tolerance.

    These people are idiots. They make assumptions they don't bother testing, which is the extremely complicated process... of asking directly and actually taking note of what is said, and they'd know they are full of it.

    Patronizing idiots.
     

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