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WASF3 disrupts mitochondrial respiration and may mediate exercise intolerance in myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome, 2023 Hwang et al

Discussion in 'ME/CFS research' started by Hoopoe, Jul 1, 2022.

  1. Ash

    Ash Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    1,105
    Location:
    UK
    Me too.
     
  2. B_V

    B_V Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Absolutely
     
    EndME, Hutan, Solstice and 10 others like this.
  3. Dakota15

    Dakota15 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This feature is great, thank you for your efforts on this, @B_V!
     
    minimus, Hutan, Laurie P and 13 others like this.
  4. dratalanta

    dratalanta Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    67
    I don’t know anything about how muscles work, but for me it seems that my underlying muscle strength is quite normal for a sedentary person. On a good day, I can access that strength.

    But most of the time I have almost no effective strength at all and am often too weak to (for example) lift a glass to drink out of. But if I rest for a few weeks until the PEM lifts, my muscle strength is back to normal again (incidentally falsifying the deconditioning hypothesis).

    It’s like the machinery is all working, but the power supply is usually switched off. On the rare days that the generator is functional, the machinery seems fairly normal. If the researchers tested the mice’s strength at the start (rather than after the exertion) then a normal finding doesn’t seem necessarily inconsistent with some ME experience.
     
    sebaaa, JemPD, Hutan and 15 others like this.
  5. B_V

    B_V Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    87
    1) I don't think it's possible outside of a research setting.

    2) So the numbers are a little tricky. The main measure of WASF3 was really between populations....the average in the entire ME/CFS cohort (14 patients w/ muscle biopsies examined) was significantly higher than the average in the controls. That's the measure that Paul thinks is more important. But yes, like all things with ME/CFS, there was variation and not everyone had elevated WASF3.

    3) I don't know what chemotherapy she received.
     
  6. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    4,456
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    This comment stood out to me —

     
    sebaaa, RedFox, JemPD and 17 others like this.
  7. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    7,216
    Location:
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    The decades long persistence of the deconditioning claim is going to go down as one of the most unscientific and disturbing in modern mainstream medicine.

    A classic example of how people, even the most trained, resourced, and 'expert' of people, managed to completely fail to actually test their claim despite the existence of robust means to do so, to wilfully ignore the 800kg gorilla in the room being repeatedly pointed out by others, and just go on seeing what they wanted to see and nothing else.

    Philosophers and historians of science, and morality, are going to build whole careers on studying this one.

    What is it about this illness that it inspires actual hatred from those who have sworn to do no harm?

    It is beyond bizarre. It is grotesque moral failure at every level, from the individual clinician all the way up to global level institutions.

    (Not every single one, of course, but overwhelmingly and persistently, for half a century, the profession has failed us big time.)
     
  8. RedFox

    RedFox Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Pennsylvania
  9. Tia

    Tia Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Brilliant article, thank you @B_V
     
  10. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Well said. My muscle strength switches on and off for no obvious reason. I try to lift small amounts of weights on good days to maintain some strength, small amounts are better than doing nothing, but I have days/weeks/months that I can't do 4 reps so it's full stop. Same with muscle balancing exercises, some days I'm almost normal but others I can't do anything.
     
    sebaaa, Hutan, alktipping and 10 others like this.
  11. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    1,900
    sebaaa, RedFox, Hutan and 9 others like this.
  12. tmrw

    tmrw Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Location:
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    It looks like Relyviro was rejected by the EMA and is being re-examined. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/summaries-opinion/albrioza

    I hope he gets funding for the ME study with more convincing results.
     
    Sid, Hutan, MSEsperanza and 5 others like this.
  13. Braganca

    Braganca Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Hutan, Michelle, B_V and 5 others like this.
  14. Simbindi

    Simbindi Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Even when there's not overt 'hatred', there is certain1y mora1 judgment of the patient at a11 1eve1s. As if they are 'chronica11y fatigued' by '1ifesty1e choices', or they are deemed to be 'just 1azy'.
     
    ahimsa, EzzieD, Sean and 3 others like this.
  15. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    1,172
    I've played soccer/football for a number of years after I've got diagnosed and feeling flat turned into feeling like garbage at some point.
     
    Michelle, ahimsa, B_V and 3 others like this.
  16. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    8,332
    How long did it take that garbage feeling to turn into PEM? Felt flat after exercising during PVFS, and then I went straight to getting PEM years later.
     
  17. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    1,172
    Very good question that I don't have an exact answer too. It's been about 13 years ago that I've stopped playing and at the time I didn't know about PEM, so I don't think I took much notice.
     
  18. Dakota15

    Dakota15 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks for sharing @Jaybee00. That message inspired me, and I wrote to NHLBI Director too. Hoping others may follow suit as well.

    upload_2023-9-18_20-46-27.png
     
    EndME, sebaaa, Hutan and 16 others like this.
  19. leokitten

    leokitten Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I saw in an NIH media piece on the study that they were also looking at the ER stress inhibitor drug salubrinal and tested it on ME cells in the study and it reduced WASF3 as well as normalized mitochondria energy production.
     
    AndroidEeyore, sebaaa, Hutan and 10 others like this.
  20. leokitten

    leokitten Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    885
    Location:
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    @B_V thank you for all the hard work on this, and for providing the patient community a much needed dose of new discovery and reinvigorated hope. It’s nice to connect again in some way.

    You and I originally met near your place in DC in 2013 when I was working at NIH and had recently gotten ME from a protracted viral infection and was trying to reach out to others for help. You were at WaPo and your ME had been deteriorating. Feels like a lifetime ago. Brian you and Beth were both very kind and helpful I wish all the best for you. I was able to continue working at NIH with tons of accommodations until 2021 severity progressed to mostly bedound and I had to stop my cancer research career. I hope you both are doing well in Hawaii.
     
    EndME, AndroidEeyore, sebaaa and 24 others like this.

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