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Video Recorded PIP Assessments...

Discussion in 'Work, Finances and Disability Insurance' started by Hell..hath..no..fury..., Jun 22, 2018.

  1. Hell..hath..no..fury...

    Hell..hath..no..fury... Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The text below is copy and pasted from ‘Benefits and Work’ website. Didn’t want to add a link in case people couldn’t sign in to read it.

    While i think its a great way of stopping assessors from lying, the thought of being filmed talking about really private things gives me the creeps.


    Do you want your PIP assessment video recorded?

    Created: 15 June 2018
    In a statement made earlier this month the government announced that it was extending the contracts for Capita and Atos to carry out PIP assessments for a further two years, in spite of widespread anger at the standard of those assessments. As a concession to the level of disquiet the government also announced a pilot project to video record PIP assessments.

    In her statement, Sarah Newton, Minister of State for Disabled People, said:

    “A key part of our efforts to improve the assessment process will be making video recording of the PIP assessment a standard part of the process. We will be piloting videoing the assessment with a view to then rolling this out across Great Britain.”

    However, until now recording of benefits assessments has always been audio only.

    Video recordings may have some advantages over audio in terms of evidence. For example, it might make it clearer whether claimants were able to carry out any movements that the assessor asked them to.

    However, some people may feel considerable disquiet at being video-taped whilst taking part in what can be a very intrusive process.

    They may also have concerns about how secure those videos may be and how long they will be kept by the DWP.

    We would be very interested to know what Benefits and Work readers think about the idea of the DWP video recording your PIP assessment rather than audio recording it.
     
  2. alktipping

    alktipping Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I could imagine a bunch of wellbeing practitioners from the iapt using these videos to wrongly accuse people of faking their symptoms to gain benefits . the process is invasive enough the added stress of having what little privacy were allowed taken away and perhaps used in appeal courts against appellants is an extra stress that we do not need . proper audio recording with both sides receiving a copy would suffice to keep the assessors honest .
     
  3. Hell..hath..no..fury...

    Hell..hath..no..fury... Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think if this ever becomes compulsary will be the day i eventually give up entirely and see how long i can stay alive with zero money.
     
  4. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Sadly, that 's probably one of reasons they're doing it. It won't be for claimants benefit that's for sure.
     
  5. alktipping

    alktipping Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    if it became compulsory I would wear a balaclava .
     
  6. Sarah

    Sarah Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The DWP know that audio recording makes assessors nervous and more likely to green light claims so this will be an attempt to redress the DWP concession to audio recording all PIP assessments. Claimant appearance, demeanour, bearing and movement in physical exams will be captured. It's an intimidatory measure.
     
    Amw66, ladycatlover, Inara and 5 others like this.
  7. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Don't forget one of those voice modulators that make you sound like Darth Vader. ;)
     
  8. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    In a better world they would record sessions and have them under tight internet security with appropriate laws in place so that the only time they could be accessed is when a complaint is made against either party and sanctions for making spurious complains.
     
  9. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Mixed bag. But without an objective record you cannot prove the assessors were shonky, intimidating, etc. I would love to have that sort of record for one or two of the assessments I had to go through to get the disability pension. At least one of the assessors would be facing disciplinary proceedings before his professional body. :mad:
     
  10. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    When the alternative to recording is assessors telling lies about what you did or said, I'd rather have it recorded, kept securely, and only used if you appeal the decision or make a complaint about the assessment.

    I had to go through appeal years ago when the assessor wrote the opposite of what I said. Nightmare!
     
  11. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    How long before the videos come to be used "for training purposes"?
     
  12. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Are people aware that your assessment is already audio recorded?

    For those who don't want a video, I believe that the precedent has been set by the assessment companies, two party consent is required. Covertly record your assessment and if found out, the assessment will be terminated.

    An important part of Data Protection laws is that you cannot be coerced into providing details that are not essential to the processing of your data. This is to the DWP's annoyance when they send you to a private company for workfare and/or training. If you refuse to sign away permission for the company to access your data, they cannot do anything, and they cannot claim a payment by result. ;)

    As the assessments have been going on for some time without video recording, that is proof they are not essential, and if challenged in court, I don't see how it can be done without consent, especially if the reason for them is partly or in whole for the benefit of the claimant. Explicit, specific, freely given consent has to be given.

    https://ico.org.uk/for-organisation...ion-gdpr/lawful-basis-for-processing/consent/

    As there are situations where consent does not have to be given, the following rules have to be followed:

    https://ico.org.uk/for-organisation...gdpr/lawful-basis-for-processing/public-task/

    If in doubt, when signing things, consider adding a note 'under duress' or similar and initialing it.
     
  13. Sarah

    Sarah Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I imagine the eventual reality will possibly be a choice of video recording or no recording, the latter leaving the claimant potentially subject to the type of situation Trish and many others have experienced. The problem of videotaping for claimants with ME is compounded by the invisibility of the condition and the likelihood that PwME may perform well on the musculoskeletal exam.

    Switching benefits briefly, I think the WCA Handbook for ESA assessments explicitly contains recommendation for assessor to observe movements or actions that are inconsistent with the disability that is claimed, although not framed in this language. As I ses it, moving to video-tape rather than audio-record PIP assessments seems like turning the benefit to the claimant of recording at least partly on its head to create fertile ground for training assessors to focus on physical aspects of the interview that make a claim refusal defensible.
     
  14. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Only if you ask for it and they happen to have the equipment available, which I understand they usually don't, and you request it in advance, or you provide the equipment yourself of the approved type and get permission in advance to record it. There have to be two copies produced and one handed to the assessor immediately after the interview, and one kept by the interviewee.
     
  15. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    No, I mean that your assessment is audio recorded by the contractor for 'training purposes' (and no, you cannot have a copy of it, you have to jump through the hoops you've described). This should be destroyed after 14 months under the Data Protection Act.
     
  16. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Perhaps the claimant could clearly ask at the start of the (current allegedly unrecorded assessment) if the assessment is being recorded?

    Presumably, to lie would be illegal?
     
  17. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I wonder who is responsible for storing the current recordings @Luther Blissett?

    I had assumed that a contractor would only have access to your data for as long as necessary to process your claim. That the data they held would only be used for the purpose if processing the claim.

    This is an outrageous breach of trust, if nothing else. It would also mean that where claimants have made a complaint against an assessor, the DWP already had access to the proof, but did nothing about it.
     
  18. Sarah

    Sarah Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Have you got a link @Luther Blissett?
     
  19. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If the original post represents the entirety of the information on this it is wholly inadequate. Before commenting one would need to know something of the proposed procedure. If they are going to do this they must, as a matter of routine, provide a copy of the recording to the claimant at the end of the assessment. I see that this has been partly dealt with above. This would be to avoid loss of, or tampering with the evidence. With the reputations they have, government contractors cannot be trusted on this.

    They will of course object to this on cost grounds.
     
  20. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    You can take with you an attandee (Beistand in German) who also functions as a witness. In Germany, audio recordings are not allowed (due to freedom of speech) - unless of course, all sides agree - but video without audio would be allowed.

    I would be shocked if such a practice would exist here. I am already shocked there are audio recordings in UK. Wouldn't an attendee suffice? I am pretty sure this is not done to help the applicant.

    Often, the written expert opinion shows possible shortcomings that can be taken apart. There is no need for a video or audio tape.

    Again, I find myself thinking what a cruel place UK is to live in. I hope this is not understood as an offense - more like sadness and shock from my side. Germany is not much better.
     

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