UK: Disability benefits (UC, ESA and PIP) - news and updates 2024 and 2025

[Jonathan Edwards]

Which frontbenchers have indicated that they might resign?

I have no idea. I am just going by rumours from journalists.

 

[Kitty]

The way they speak you would think people are unwilling to work.

When in fact a lot of disabled are working or would want to work, but can’t.

This is part of the problem. The message doesn't even make any sense; PIP is nothing to do with work in the first place, so why make it the headline in policy announcements about encouraging more people into work?

Cutting the benefit won't result in a lot more people working, just a lot more poverty and strain on services. Not to speak of less money going into the economy, because people don't use PIP payments as ornaments or stash them in offshore tax havens, they spend them.

£5 billion in reduced welfare is £5 billion less keeping businesses afloat—businesses that employ people and contribute tax to the exchequer.

 

[MrMagoo]

This is part of the problem. The message doesn't even make any sense; PIP is nothing to do with work in the first place, so why make it the headline in policy announcements about encouraging more people into work?

Cutting the benefit won't result in a lot more people working, just a lot more poverty and strain on services. Not to speak of less money going into the economy, because people don't use PIP payments as ornaments or stash them in offshore tax havens, they spend them.

£5 billion in reduced welfare is £5 billion less keeping businesses afloat—businesses that employ people and contribute tax to the exchequer.

I feel like the BPS doublespeak type of nonsense has spread to other parts of life.

 

[Simbindi]

Someone made the comment in the Benefits and Work site that pensioners who get Pension Credit because they are on PIP will also be affected if they don't qualify for PIP at renewal under the minimum 4 point in one criteria change (i.e. they may lose their Pension Credit top up and other passported benefits such as Council Tax discount). I think this is a correct understanding although it doesn't appear in the media and I don't think it's been raised by the OBR impact statement (although I haven't read the OBR report fully so may be wrong).

Additionally it looks like Labour are planning on changing other aspects of PIP after November 2026 as they mention this is their current intention in their Green Paper. They are obviously not going to make it easier to get, likely they will change the descriptors or increase the threshold further.

 

[Simbindi]

Has anyone scored an 8 on any of the care descriptors of PIP or know of anyone who has? The highest I've scored is 4 points in some of the descriptors (some of these relate to my autism, ADHD and non ME related physical conditions) although the written part of the assessment report indicates I actually meet the criteria for an 8 in some of these. The 4s are me on a very very rare 'good' day, and only for an hour or so on these days!

N.B. Just asking this to gauge whether the DWP actually gives an 8 out to people who still have their hands and legs, even if they can't use them 'reliably or repeatedly etc.'

 

[Kitty]

Has anyone scored an 8 on any of the care descriptors of PIP or know of anyone who has?

My highest's 4 too, but I know someone with severe MS who has 8. No one with ME/CFS though.

Someone made the comment in the Benefits and Work site that pensioners who get Pension Credit because they are on PIP will also be affected if they don't qualify for PIP at renewal under the minimum 4 point in one criteria change (i.e. they may lose their Pension Credit top up and other passported benefits such as Council Tax discount).

Some would lose it, some (perhaps a minority?) wouldn't.

For instance, I'll get a full state pension and have a small amount from an occupational pension, so I wouldn't qualify unless I got PIP.

But my friend doesn't get the full amount and has no occupational pensions, so if it weren't for the fact that she's still working, she'd qualify on income grounds alone.

 

[MrMagoo]

I got a bit of free expert advice and they said my ADLs at 2s were about all you’d expect for someone who doesn’t have any carers or OT type assistance, and with no serious (documented by consultant report etc) mental health issues.

I think I will push for a Care Assessment (the LA told me I couldn’t have one, which is apparently a lie and they have a duty to carry one out) also I do have a private home help and carer.

 

[Kitty]

my ADLs at 2s were about all you’d expect for someone who doesn’t have any carers or OT type assistance

You don't need to have the assistance, only to need it. My 4 is for being unable to prepare and cook a simple meal without supervision or assistance.

What it means is that, like most of us, I can't do the activity safely, reliably, or as often as I need to.

It probably helps that I have a bit of a history of falls and scalds. They're from years ago, there are only a handful of instances anyway (when things turn out to hurt that much I stop doing them) and as far as I know DWP have never asked the surgery for the evidence. They seemed to accept it as plausible given the rest of the picture.

 

[MrMagoo]

You don't need to have the assistance, only to need it. My 4 is for being unable to prepare and cook a simple meal without supervision or assistance.

What it means is that, like most of us, I can't do the activity safely, reliably, or as often as I need to.

It probably helps that I have a bit of a history of falls and scalds. They're from years ago, there are only a handful of instances anyway (when things turn out to hurt that much I stop doing them) and as far as I know DWP have never asked the surgery for the evidence. They seemed to accept it as plausible given the rest of the picture.

I’m aware that these are the rules, but as I said I had free expert advice (after a long tribunal process I still got 2s, despite extensive evidence and reference to their rules, that I don’t need any assistance to do anything at any point in the day). I’m now going to waste everyone’s time by getting evidence to back up my evidence that I’m bedbound more than half the day.

 

[Sean]

BMJ 25/3/2025 - Editorial

'Cuts to disability benefits will worsen health and the economy'

https://www.bmj.com/content/388/bmj.r593

Way too little, way too late, BMJ. You have blood of millions of cruelly destroyed lives on your hands via your unrelenting unapologetic uncritical support for the psychosomatic cult and its fraudulent claims, and helping it to take such deep root in the entire governance structure. This is the inevitable result of that, and you have no excuses.

They think taking away the money will suddenly make people no longer sick.

The way they speak you would think people are unwilling to work.

Yeah, we just love the decades of poverty and abuse and abandonment from the world that ME has brought us, with little prospect of anything better to come, and having to watch the guilty endlessly get away with it and get rewarded for it.

But, no, we are the ones who need yet another bashing. Just so those in power can feel all tough and superior and righteous.

I feel like the BPS doublespeak type of nonsense has spread to other parts of life.

The BPSers have provided one of the most desirable of all things to those in power, a pseudo-scientific, pseudo-medical, pseudo-economic, pseudo-compassionate excuse to inflict even more savagery on those already at the bottom of the pile, for absolutely no good reason.

 

[yME]

they may lose their Pension Credit top up and other passported benefits such as Council Tax discount).

Not only that but private landlords now see PIP claimants as a undesirable risk on top of the renters reform act. Historically PIP and state pension represented stability for payments. A couple one is an oap with wife on PIP working a few hours are soon to find notice to quit as house is going for sale. I cannot begin to think what will happen to them. Who will help or house them and will it enable her to continue to work?
Can I emphasise the importance of voting at any opportunity without breaching forum rules? In May.

 

[Simbindi]

Some would lose it, some (perhaps a minority?) wouldn't.

This will affect more people every year as the new state pension is set a few pounds above the threshold for eligibility for Pension Credit. So anyone with the full number of years of NI contributions/credits from benefits will need PIP to be eligible for the Pension Credit top up, which would then passport them to further help such as the Warm Home Discounts, council tax discounts etc.

I haven't looked into it fully but it seems, perversely, that someone who has lived in this country long enough to have a minimum 35 years of NI credits (but no PIP) now gets only the new State Pension, whereas (for example) a more recent immigrant or native who has lived abroad etc. would have their pension income topped up with Pension Credit to the same amount but also get all the other passported help. The seems especially hard on those whose only income is their state pension as they now lose the WHD under the Labour cuts (I'm not sure what else as I'm still 8 years away from this).

 

[Simbindi]

It appears there will also be an unplanned for contradiction if the new 4 point threshold for PIP is used for pensioners. A pensioner who is eligible for PIP under the current scoring may lose the care element of their PIP at reassessment whilst maintaining their mobility award. But currently a pensioner in receipt of PIP isn't permitted to claim Attendance Allowance although the amounts for standard and enhanced care are the same.

Details of Attendance Allowance can be found at this link:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/attendance-allowance-claim-form

A quick glance through gives the impression that AA is a mixture of the old DLA (with standard rate given if you need help only in the daytime or night time, but enhanced if you require help both in the day and during the night) and the current care assessment criteria:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/313/regulation/2/made

So this may be worth mentioning if responding to the Green Paper consultation or if writing to your MP with your concerns.

 

[Kitty]

it seems, perversely, that someone who has lived in this country long enough to have a minimum 35 years of NI credits (but no PIP) now gets only the new State Pension, whereas (for example) a more recent immigrant or native who has lived abroad etc. would have their pension income topped up with Pension Credit to the same amount but also get all the other passported help

Yes, that is an interesting one. But there are also people like my mate who doesn't have the NI credits because they lived on her partner's income. Sadly he died unexpectedly, and because they'd never married she didn't get whatever pension he'd built up.

Quite a few of the widowed and single women on our development (council independent living) seem to qualify for Pension Credit on income grounds alone, judging by the chitchat at community meetings. I'm only aware of a couple of us on PIP.

A pensioner who is eligible for PIP under the current scoring may lose the care element of their PIP at reassessment whilst maintaining their mobility award. But currently a pensioner in receipt of PIP isn't permitted to claim Attendance Allowance although the amounts for standard and enhanced care are the same.

Another interesting one! Though they'd no doubt argue that if the person wasn't entitled to PIP they wouldn't be entitled to AA either, even though the criteria and assessment aren't the same.

Still you're right, it's worth pointing out to the MP. Haven't heard what ours has had to say about it all yet.

 

[Sean]

Can't add anything, or even offer any helpful suggestions.

Just thinking of all those caught up in this shitfest, and wishing the best for you.

 

[MrMagoo]

This will affect more people every year as the new state pension is set a few pounds above the threshold for eligibility for Pension Credit. So anyone with the full number of years of NI contributions/credits from benefits will need PIP to be eligible for the Pension Credit top up, which would then passport them to further help such as the Warm Home Discounts, council tax discounts etc.

I haven't looked into it fully but it seems, perversely, that someone who has lived in this country long enough to have a minimum 35 years of NI credits (but no PIP) now gets only the new State Pension, whereas (for example) a more recent immigrant or native who has lived abroad etc. would have their pension income topped up with Pension Credit to the same amount but also get all the other passported help. The seems especially hard on those whose only income is their state pension as they now lose the WHD under the Labour cuts (I'm not sure what else as I'm still 8 years away from this).

I don’t understand why a recent immigrant gets a pension credit top up equivalent to PIP with associated passported benefits?

 

[Simbindi]

I don’t understand why a recent immigrant gets a pension credit top up equivalent to PIP with associated passported benefits?

I said 'more recent', they may have been here for 10 or more years, but less than the 35 years required to get the full new state pension, whilst many native British people will have reached that NI contributions threshold. Pension credit is a top up to give pensioners a minimum income that is just less than the new state pension (they only get the additional top up equivalent to the severe disability premium of ESA if they also get PIP). The problem is Pension Credit entitlement has a sudden cut off rather than a taper. Hence someone on the full new state pension loses their other passported benefits (such as the WHD) even though their income may be less than a few pounds a week 'better off' than someone on pension credit who get these additional benefits. This was covered in the media when Labour scraped the WFA however they still didn't bring in a 'taper' to help those pensioners on a low income that lost out because of this.

Someone on a full new state pension but no other income who receives Attendance Allowance after pension age would also be entitled to Pension Credit because they would get the severe disability premium. This is an example only, as someone may have an additional pension that is still below the threshold for this top up (such as Kitty's example).

 

[Simbindi]

Quite a few of the widowed and single women on our development (council independent living) seem to qualify for Pension Credit on income grounds alone, judging by the chitchat at community meetings. I'm only aware of a couple of us on PIP.

Yes, I'd be in that situation but for the fact that I claimed over 16 years of Child Benefit in my name when married (my ex was on a high income and supported me when the kids were preschool and during their primary years) and then as a single parent, so get NI credits for these years. I've only actually worked a few years full time since 19 years (when I left school, I did an extra year due to glandular fever, the start of my ME) so without the NI credits from Child Benefit and then Income Support and later ESA I wouldn't have more than a few years of NI contributions. But because I don't retire until age 67 I will have the 35 years of NI credits required so wouldn't get Pension Credit if it wasn't for my PIP award. I think it mostly affects new pensioners, more will be affected in the coming years as only 35 years of NI contributions are now required.

 

[Simbindi]

Another interesting one! Though they'd no doubt argue that if the person wasn't entitled to PIP they wouldn't be entitled to AA either, even though the criteria and assessment aren't the same.

Still you're right, it's worth pointing out to the MP. Haven't heard what ours has had to say about it all yet.

I think a possible way forward would be for the government to legislate to allow pensioners who are in receipt of only the mobility element of PIP (not the care element) to be eligible to apply for Attendance Allowance. At the moment it doesn't look like they can do this.

 

[Simbindi]

Another interesting one! Though they'd no doubt argue that if the person wasn't entitled to PIP they wouldn't be entitled to AA either, even though the criteria and assessment aren't the same.

Still you're right, it's worth pointing out to the MP. Haven't heard what ours has had to say about it all yet.

I'd be concerned about giving them any ideas on how to make PIP harder to get in the future! I think Labour has mooted about using different criteria for it after the 2026 changes take effect. Looking at how Attendance Allowance seems to use some of the Care Act criteria I wouldn't be surprised if this is what they are planning for PIP in the longer term. Whatever they come up with it will be about saving money rather than supporting more working age sick and disable people - that is the only certainty.