UK: Disability benefits (UC, ESA and PIP) - news and updates 2024 and 2025

It all makes me livid.

But for me one of the most grotesque comments/plans is that they're proposing giving 'medical treatment' instead of benefits, to keep people in work. As if people with mental health issues arent all desperate and begging for treatment. As if they'd rather be in distress & on benefits instead. THERE ISNT ANY F'ING TREATMENT. A few online or group sessions of CBT for anxiety isnt 'treatment'. It certainly wont be treatment when its offered by a poorly trained & DWP-aims-motivated 'therapist' delivered in a job centre where people already feel unsafe.
 
Call for evidence for the 'fit note reforms' is here https://www.gov.uk/government/calls...or-evidence/fit-note-reform-call-for-evidence

We welcome all views, particularly from:
  • employers
  • healthcare professionals
  • patients, carers and those who access fit notes
  • representatives of local systems or local system partners (for example, local authority, integrated care board and voluntary community social enterprise)
  • interested academics and stakeholder organisations

There's a long online form full of leading questions - but they also say:

If you prefer to respond via email or post, please send your response to fitnote.team@dwp.gov.uk or:

The Fit Note Team
Department for Work and Pensions
Caxton House
Tothill Street
London
SW1H 9NA​
 
Maat said:
If they refuse to consent on the grounds that the treatment is the same as that which caused the increased severity of the illness in the first place, they will no longer qualify for this benefit.
Click to expand...
Toa Fogger's quote was about the rules surrounding automatic qualification for the benefit without an assessment.

So while i agree with everything you've said, the whole thing is a disgrace...

it wouldnt be that they wouldnt qualify for the benefit, but that they wouldnt qualify for it automatically without having to go through the assessment like other people do.

Just to clarify: this comment is related to previous discussion on the SDG - not the govenment announcements over the last couple of days
 
Regarding Sunak's speech & the announcements in the press in last couple of days... I appreciate this is just a 'lets vilify the disabled/unemployed' & blame us for the state of the country & make people feel hard done by, like they are working to fund the lifestyles of the lazy - which is what all too many people already believe. I know theyre doing it to get votes...

But i havent seen anything actually new? I'm wondering if this is just a reiteration of the plans already set out in the White Paper last autumn, about their plans for the benefits system. Reminding people 'remember we're planning a real crackdown on lazy scroungers' in prep for the election...
or if these announcements represents new plans? Does anyone know? nothing on B&W about it yet.
 
I think the new bit might be the taking away sick/fit notes from GP's and having people designated to do it instead. I gather it's already been expanded so pharmacists and some other varieties of clinicians can do it, but this seems to go further.
 
tornandfrayed said:
I'm going to report something that happened to me, because it may happen to others and because it's weird.

My esa payments stopped being paid. When I phoned the DWP they said because their software is old it can only hold so much data. When claims become overloaded they stop issuing payments. The claim has then to be rebuilt manually.

My claim seems to be OK now,
Click to expand...
my bolding

So you didnt have to start a new claim? It was just the old previous claim continuing but it had to be re-entered into the system by hand?

I ask because my claim is old and long, and because its the old fashioned legacy version of ESA its contribution based & not subject to transfer to UC. My fear is that if my own claim gets 'too big' that this may happen to me & instead of the claim being continuous they may start again from scratch with a new claim? Which would have new rules that are hugely problematic for me.
 
Trish said:
I think the new bit might be the taking away sick/fit notes from GP's and having people designated to do it instead. I gather it's already been expanded so pharmacists and some other varieties of clinicians can do it, but this seems to go further.
Click to expand...
That wasnt new information for me though, i'm sure i've read that before so it must have been proposed somewhere? Does anyone else remember it?
 
JemPD said:
But i havent seen anything actually new? I'm wondering if this is just a reiteration of the plans already set out in the White Paper last autumn, about their plans for the benefits system.
Click to expand...

I think it is, and that it was phrased this way for political reasons as you say. It sounds a bit desperate, so I'm not taking it very seriously for now.

JemPD said:
Does anyone else remember it?
Click to expand...

I can remember it being spoken about, but I'm so close to retirement age that I didn't really follow it up. You may well be right, though.
 
Kitty said:
I think it is, and that it was phrased this way for political reasons as you say. It sounds a bit desperate, so I'm not taking it very seriously for now.



I can remember it being spoken about, but I'm so close to retirement age that I didn't really follow it up. You may well be right, though.
Click to expand...
thats a relief, i also didnt pay much attention to the fit note detail back then because its a long way from applying to me, unfortunately.

ETA: i said 'unfortunately' only because i'd love to be well enough to work, obviously wouldnt want to be in the position people who need fit notes will be in when the new rules come into force
 
Maat said:
syndromes characterised by chronic pain and fatigue where symptoms are longstanding, affect multiple activities of daily living (ADLs) and confirmation that all treatment options provided by specialist pain and fatigue services have been exhausted"
Click to expand...
I think that's the problem here. The open-ended "the treatments work, if you have the motivation" allows them to argue that it hasn't been exhausted, that they can always, at any moment, just choose to stop behaving the sick role. They can simply get moving and it'll be over in a week.

Even though the very best evidence they have is that 1 in 7 have some minimal subjective report of improvement on fatigue. It's insane but what's written down is largely irrelevant, it's what's widely believed and enforced that matters. Beliefs overrule reality.
 
JemPD said:
Toa Fogger's quote was about the rules surrounding automatic qualification for the benefit without an assessment.

So while i agree with everything you've said, the whole thing is a disgrace...

it wouldnt be that they wouldnt qualify for the benefit, but that they wouldnt qualify for it automatically without having to go through the assessment like other people do.

Just to clarify: this comment is related to previous discussion on the SDG - not the government announcements over the last couple of days
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying, but I've only today caught up with this aspect and the White paper etc., as my own review of PIP has been extended because of the backlog the DWP have.

I've just re-read the white paper and it introduces the new SDG as one group specifically for those with severe disability. As you say, the purpose is automatic without the need for assessment process. So as I read it, as there is only one SDG, not one for automatic and one for severe illnesses which are adjudged as capable of coping with the normal assessment process. Therefore, whatever your illness, if it is classed as severe then where it states:

"Syndromes characterised by chronic pain and fatigue
syndromes characterised by chronic pain and fatigue where symptoms are longstanding, affect multiple activities of daily living (ADLs) and confirmation that all treatment options provided by specialist pain and fatigue services have been exhausted" [my bold]​


applies.

This is what the White Paper says:

"Introducing the Severe Disability Group
What you told us
  • People welcomed the proposal for a Severe Disability Group (SDG) as it addresses concerns about the stress and anxiety experienced by people with severe health conditions and disabilities going through the assessment process.
  • More information is needed on the criteria and how this might impact on other groups and awards.
What we are proposing

127. Since the Green Paper we have made progress with our plans to test the SDG, so this group can benefit from a simplified process without ever needing to complete a detailed application form or go through an assessment. We have worked with an expert group of specialist health professionals to draw up a set of draft criteria which focuses on claimants who have conditions which are severely disabling, lifelong and with no realistic prospect of recovery. These criteria were shared with several charities and their feedback was used to further develop our draft criteria, which we are now testing. We will share further details as we go through testing.

128. A test of the SDG began in Autumn 2022. This policy will be tested on a small scale across a range of health conditions. We will then gather insight from service users, DWP staff and organisations to make sure it works as intended to improve the assessment process for claimants with the most severe disabilities and health conditions."
Transforming Support: The Health and Disability White Paper - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

What else would new PROMS, PASS and whatever else it was being called (Sarah Tyson) include severe ME/CFS patients to be used in the NHS, if it were not going to be used by the British Society of Rehabilitation, which we know already has ME/CFS and Long Covid listed.
​
As it states in the SDG details;

"Clinician led
Clinicians will identify suitable patients. This is currently being tested in conjunction with Blackpool NHS Trust and the British Society of Physical Rehabilitation Medicine (BSPRM)."
​
Treatment will not have been 'exhausted' if severe patients are not returned for another dose. That's how I read it anyway, but I could be wrong. If you refuse.....​
 
Last edited:
Maat said:
Treatment will not have been 'exhausted' if severe patients are not returned for another dose. That's how I read it anyway, but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

I guess being discharged by a service would mean the treatment is finished? That's common and happens for various reasons. An ME/CFS clinic not taking on someone because they're too severely ill to attend might be another.

The main problem might be that most pwME don't have a clinician in the first place—at least, not a consultant. There's often an assumption that if someone is severely ill, there must be a specialist overseeing their care. But on the other hand, there are lots of people with severe, lifelong impairments or multiple chronic illnesses who're GP managed, so ... who knows.
 
rvallee said:
Oh wow I missed that detail. Holy damn this is a bit much even for Orwell.
Click to expand...

One could equally read it as a rather good sketch on Not the Nine O Clock News.
It is self-parody of a level that made me laugh out loud.

The bastards didn't even pass their capability assessments. This isn't fair!

Fortunately, these people aren't going to be around much longer.
The worry may be that the other lot have a rather similar obsession with growth.
 
Maat said:
I've just re-read the white paper and it introduces the new SDG as one group specifically for those with severe disability. As you say, the purpose is automatic without the need for assessment process. So as I read it, as there is only one SDG, not one for automatic and one for severe illnesses which are adjudged as capable of coping with the normal assessment process. Therefore, whatever your illness, if it is classed as severe then where it states:

"Syndromes characterised by chronic pain and fatigue
syndromes characterised by chronic pain and fatigue where symptoms are longstanding, affect multiple activities of daily living (ADLs) and confirmation that all treatment options provided by specialist pain and fatigue services have been exhausted" [my bold]

applies.
Click to expand...
I hear what you're saying, & they could undoubtedly turn the currently proposed SDG into something akin to 'if you dont qualify for the SDG then youre not severely disabled enough to get PIP which could lead to 'do more treatment' or dont get the benefit. But *currently*, as the white paper stands i dont think thats the case.

Because currently the proposed SDG isnt a case of 'anyone whose illness is classed as severe can only qualify for PIP if they qualify for the SDG'. If you dont qualify for the SDG you wont be prevented from applying for PIP in the usual way. Its not like everyone who has a 'severe' label will have to qualify for the SDG or be unable to claim PIP at all. Its more about whether there is any chance of that person ever improving - in the SDG you get automatic PIP entitlement & never have to be reassessed or reviewed like the rest of us do. Its not currently proposed to be about PIP entitlement in the wider sense.

So while it may well be the case that PwME may be refused automatic entitlement & no reviews unless they go back for some more of what made them severe in the first place. But thats different than not being able to get PIP without doing so, just because you are severely ill.

In fairness there is already an assumption that you must do all treatment offered or be turned down for benefits - thats not really lawful as i understand it, but i think it has happened to people. But in that case if you have already done the treatment & it didnt work/made you worse then you'd have a good case at appeal for entitlement to benefit.

But the SDG is not something that you'll automatically be screened for just because you have severe disability (because severe disability isnt necessarily permanent), & you dont *have* to go in it to get PIP, its an extra that you have to apply for or them be told by a doctor that you qualify for. But thats slightly unclear. (not sure if you read this
Shambolic Severe Disability Group assessment system revealed (benefitsandwork.co.uk))

But the gov website says
The Severe Disability Group (SDG) is a set of criteria to identify claimants with the most severe and permanently disabling conditions in order to fast track them to the higher rate of disability benefit without having to go through the usual application and assessment process. It is also anticipated that introduction of the criteria will result in a decrease in the number of people needing to undergo reassessment and a reduction in bureaucracy for clinicians.
Click to expand...
my bold.
so in essence if you cant prove youve 'exhausted all the treatment options', then you cant prove its permanently disabling & therefore you wont be fast tracked onto PIP, you'll just have to go through the assessment process as usual, and then be reviewed/reassessed at the DWP's discretion.

You can be severely ill with all kinds of things but still have treatments available to you that could make you improve in the future, & that would bar you from entry to the SDG, because theres a chance you could get better. But it wouldnt bar you from applying for PIP in the usual way, & be awarded the enhanced rates, because (AIUI) the time limit for PIP is your disability has to be expected to last at least 9months. So they'd just set a review date in 1 or 2 yrs - which is what they often do for PwME anyway, so i dont envisage much changing for us.

A few of us may be lucky enough to get in, if they will take us meeting 1 or 2 of the SDG criteria, but not if we have to fulfil all of them i dont think. No NHS doctor is ever going to say in writing that we wont get better - because they all think we will, and that not only that but telling us we have a poor prognosis is what will cause the poor prognosis, so...

IMHO the SDG is always going to be nigh on impossible for PwME to get into anyway, because you've got to get an NHS clinician to say you're not going to get any better.

Hope that makes sense & i havent completely misunderstood what you were saying @Maat, apologies if i have, am 'thinking through treacle' today
 
JemPD said:
I hear what you're saying, & they could undoubtedly turn the currently proposed SDG into something akin to 'if you dont qualify for the SDG then youre not severely disabled enough to get PIP which could lead to 'do more treatment' or dont get the benefit. But *currently*, as the white paper stands i dont think thats the case.

Because currently the proposed SDG isnt a case of 'anyone whose illness is classed as severe can only qualify for PIP if they qualify for the SDG'. If you dont qualify for the SDG you wont be prevented from applying for PIP in the usual way. Its not like everyone who has a 'severe' label will have to qualify for the SDG or be unable to claim PIP at all. Its more about whether there is any chance of that person ever improving - in the SDG you get automatic PIP entitlement & never have to be reassessed or reviewed like the rest of us do. Its not currently proposed to be about PIP entitlement in the wider sense.

So while it may well be the case that PwME may be refused automatic entitlement & no reviews unless they go back for some more of what made them severe in the first place. But thats different than not being able to get PIP without doing so, just because you are severely ill.

In fairness there is already an assumption that you must do all treatment offered or be turned down for benefits - thats not really lawful as i understand it, but i think it has happened to people. But in that case if you have already done the treatment & it didnt work/made you worse then you'd have a good case at appeal for entitlement to benefit.

But the SDG is not something that you'll automatically be screened for just because you have severe disability (because severe disability isnt necessarily permanent), & you dont *have* to go in it to get PIP, its an extra that you have to apply for or them be told by a doctor that you qualify for. But thats slightly unclear. (not sure if you read this
Shambolic Severe Disability Group assessment system revealed (benefitsandwork.co.uk))

But the gov website says
my bold.
so in essence if you cant prove youve 'exhausted all the treatment options', then you cant prove its permanently disabling & therefore you wont be fast tracked onto PIP, you'll just have to go through the assessment process as usual, and then be reviewed/reassessed at the DWP's discretion.

You can be severely ill with all kinds of things but still have treatments available to you that could make you improve in the future, & that would bar you from entry to the SDG, because theres a chance you could get better. But it wouldnt bar you from applying for PIP in the usual way, & be awarded the enhanced rates, because (AIUI) the time limit for PIP is your disability has to be expected to last at least 9months. So they'd just set a review date in 1 or 2 yrs - which is what they often do for PwME anyway, so i dont envisage much changing for us.

A few of us may be lucky enough to get in, if they will take us meeting 1 or 2 of the SDG criteria, but not if we have to fulfil all of them i dont think. No NHS doctor is ever going to say in writing that we wont get better - because they all think we will, and that not only that but telling us we have a poor prognosis is what will cause the poor prognosis, so...

IMHO the SDG is always going to be nigh on impossible for PwME to get into anyway, because you've got to get an NHS clinician to say you're not going to get any better.

Hope that makes sense & i havent completely misunderstood what you were saying @Maat, apologies if i have, am 'thinking through treacle' today
Click to expand...


Ahhh I seee. :facepalm: I finally get what you're saying, sorry I made you work so hard in explaining @JemPD :) Thanks.
 
Maat said:
Ahhh I seee. :facepalm: I finally get what you're saying, sorry I made you work so hard in explaining @JemPD :) Thanks.
Click to expand...
:thumbup::) No worries at all, its reaaalllly confusing.
which of course suits them down to the ground I'm sure they do it on purpose :emoji_angry:

Next time it'll be you explaining to me, it takes a group of minds to unpick it all:rolleyes::) i only understand any of it because i read the B&W news item & then come here & ask @Kitty or @Simbindi :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom