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Tuller: Trial By Error: Our Exchange of Views with BMJ Open

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Andy, Feb 26, 2018.

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  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

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    http://www.virology.ws/2018/02/26/trial-by-error-our-exchange-of-views-with-bmj-open/
     
    Andy, Feb 26, 2018
    #1
    TiredSam, MEMarge, Mij and 38 others like this.
  2. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Fantastic - thank you
     
    Amw66, Feb 26, 2018
    #2
    Jan, MEMarge, Indigophoton and 8 others like this.
  3. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    What a weird reply from Groves. And a good one from Racaniello & co. Thanks so much to all the signatories.

    What is going on here? It's so odd that this is a pretty simple, matter of fact issue, but BMJ Open want to try to ignore that. Are they just confident that they can go on bluffing it out?
     
    Esther12, Feb 27, 2018
    #3
    strategist, Jan, MEMarge and 18 others like this.
  4. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

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    I think journals just seem to make up rules but never expect to take the difficult decisions to enforce them. They saw a get out with the response from Bristol so went with it.
     
    Adrian, Feb 27, 2018
    #4
    strategist, Jan, MEMarge and 13 others like this.
  5. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    From the COPE forum:

    Racaniello et al respond:

    I love this sentence:

    ''As our letter noted, obtaining such clarification would only require that you and other BMJ Open editors read the actual paper.''

    So it seems the BMJ Open editor is prepared to defend a paper she herself published but which she hasn't actually bothered to read. Pretty damning.
     
    Trish, Feb 27, 2018
    #5
    strategist, Jan, MEMarge and 22 others like this.
  6. guest001

    guest001 Guest

    Kudos to the researcher too ;) :emoji_mortar_board:
     
    guest001, Feb 27, 2018
    #6
    MEMarge, Allele, ladycatlover and 6 others like this.
  7. guest001

    guest001 Guest

    But, in addition to my last post, I really must make this point -

    This letter by Racaniello et al is spot on. We couldn’t ask for better advocacy than this, exposing the corrupt nature of the medical journals that so many bow down to. I just hope that Tuller is going to stay on board and ask for crowdfunding for another year. Without him we would be back to floundering around, not getting anywhere fast. Does anybody know what he’s intending to do?

    If you’re reading this David, PLEASE stay on board, we all need you.
     
    guest001, Feb 27, 2018
    #7
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  8. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Sly Saint, Feb 27, 2018
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  9. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    David is on the forum as @dave30th.
     
    Sasha, Feb 27, 2018
    #9
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  10. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Dr Trish Groves in picture form:

    [​IMG]
     
    Luther Blissett, Feb 27, 2018
    #10
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  11. guest001

    guest001 Guest

    I did know that ;)
     
    guest001, Feb 27, 2018
    #11
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  12. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I suspect it may be inertia. Journals have probably been pulling these sort of tricks for many many years, and up until now have been able to conceal and obfuscate with ease, and faced no opposition they could not deal with. Social media has changed all that, and I don't think they have really caught on. I suspect they still have a dinosaur culture that blindly tries to blunder on in the same old bull-and-bluster way that always used to work for them, not realising how it actually digs their own very deep hole for them in the modern age. I think they simply know no better.
     
    Barry, Feb 27, 2018
    #12
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  13. Daisymay

    Daisymay Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Quite so and I think they still think they are invincible and above scrutiny.
     
    Daisymay, Feb 27, 2018
    #13
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  14. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Which will hopefully be their downfall.
     
    Barry, Feb 27, 2018
    #14
    ladycatlover, Luther Blissett, MEMarge and 4 others like this.
  15. Eagles

    Eagles Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I can't get this to open - I just get a message saying "Internal Server Error".

    Is it just me?! Has the article been posted anywhere else?

    Thank-you.
     
    Eagles, Feb 28, 2018
    #15
    Luther Blissett likes this.
  16. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    No. Ive just tried and it's not loading for me at the moment either. Could just be server maintenance or something has taken it offline. Try again in a bit?
     
    Invisible Woman, Feb 28, 2018
    #16
    Luther Blissett, Eagles and MEMarge like this.
  17. MEMarge

    MEMarge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Virology Blog was down briefly a few weeks ago. Do we suspect Trump, Putin or the BPS Brigade?
     
    MEMarge, Feb 28, 2018
    #17
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  18. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Barry, Feb 28, 2018
    #18
    Luther Blissett and Eagles like this.
  19. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Do seem to be a bit troubled just recently. Hopefully got good security in place, because I'm sure there must be no shortage of folks who would happily cause Virology Blog major aggro if they could.
     
    Barry, Feb 28, 2018
    #19
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  20. Eagles

    Eagles Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Many thanks for the replies. I hope they will be able to get the site up and running again.
     
    Eagles, Feb 28, 2018
    #20
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