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Trial By Error: My First Post on the IAPT Program / David Tuller

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Cheshire, Oct 10, 2018 at 11:54 AM.

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  1. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    New Trial by Error by @dave30th

     
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  2. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Thank you @dave30th. I'm glad you're tackling this.

    Reading the quotes from the Chalder training document feels like a massive attack from a creature from another planet. How can she be so dumb and ignorant and dangerous and get away with it?
     
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  3. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    An important issue that is regularly debated here but needs to be understood by a wider audience, thank you @dave30th.

    Having put some effort into my comment on this on the Virology Blog, to feel I am getting full value, I have copied it here too, even though it is only repeating what many have already said on previous threads:

     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018 at 3:09 AM
  4. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  5. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Is in reality more like:

    "Ability to help con client feel that their experience of CFS/ME is being listened to and respected (i.e. pretend you are acknowledging that they are experiencing real, physical symptoms)"
     
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  6. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I notice the description for the book co authored with Mary Burgess
    Overcoming Chronic Fatigue: A Books on Prescription Title (Overcoming Books) Kindle Edition

    Contains the following
    (Bolding mine)

    Wonder if it's worth raising this with the advertising standards authority?
     
  7. MEMarge

    MEMarge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Just looking at a small section on the first unit is disturbing:
    HEALTH WARNING: May make you feel nauseous/angry/.....

    "UNIT 1.3: Psychological processes associated with distress, depression and anxiety in the context of Long Term Health Conditions

    Aims To give practitioners an understanding of psychological processes that contributes to the development and maintenance of distress, depression and anxiety in people with LTHCs

    Competences covered in this unit

    Ability to draw on knowledge of the relationship between distress, depression and anxiety and the negative appraisal of symptoms and illness

    Ability to draw on knowledge that negative appraisals can be magnified by unhelpful beliefs

    Ability to draw on knowledge that interpretations and appraisals are central to the development and maintenance of distress and disproportionate disability

    Ability to draw on knowledge that maintaining processes can and do worsen negative interpretations (and physical as well as psychological functioning), so creating cycles of feedback (“vicious circles”) "
     
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  8. MEMarge

    MEMarge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    For those with strong stomachs/feeling resilient...

    "Ability to draw on knowledge of specific psychological process that contribute to the development and maintenance of distress, depression and anxiety, such as:

     attentional processes that increase the perceived severity and pervasiveness of sensations and symptoms

     safety seeking behaviours (for example, excessive checking, avoidance of physical activity or situations, excessive reassurance seeking) which are understandable in the short-term, but which (in the long-term) tend to strengthen unhelpful beliefs, increase preoccupation and exacerbate concern

     rumination in the form of catastrophising and/or worry (“preparing for the worst”) which in turn primes negative ideas and increases preoccupation

     imagery and intrusive memories, increasing negative appraisals and impacting mood disturbance"
     
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  9. MEMarge

    MEMarge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Last section for now:

    "unhelpfully restrictive behaviour, such as generalised withdrawal from physical activity or from role-related activity (such as relationships, work, hobbies), leading to impaired mood, confirmation of unhelpful beliefs, reduced self-efficacy and disengagement from rewarding activities

     changes in mood (particularly anxiety and depression) contributing to mood-appraisal spirals

     emotional avoidance/suppression (for example linked to anticipated emotional responses and unhelpful beliefs about those emotions, or “blotting out” illness ideas, but with regular intrusions and unease as a consequence)

     all or nothing (“boom or bust”) behaviours (undertaking activities beyond the level of which the person is physically or psychologically capable, resulting in symptom surges (e.g. fatigue, pain) and leading to more negative appraisal

     interpersonal changes (such as those linked to a sense of unfairness, bitterness, mental defeat) eliciting negative or overly solicitous responses from significant others

     disengagement from significant others because of the health condition

     disuse and deconditioning originating from fear/avoidance patterns

    Ability to draw on knowledge of factors and mechanisms that can potentiate (and mediate) vulnerability to distress, depression and anxiety, such as:

     perfectionism (setting unrelentingly high personal standards and concern about mistakes (both social and non-social))

     psychological inflexibility (becoming “stuck” in a particular view of the illness and situation, and so limiting access to alternative, less negative understandings"
     
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  10. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It strikes me that all this provides the perfect means of dismissing / minimising / ignoring any complaints made by those suffering with LTC about service quality and delivery.

    If you're not happy, no matter how you've been treated (or mistreated) then that's your faulty perspective. You are only as ill as you think you are.

    Perfect set up to gaslight patients while you go about cutting services.
     
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  11. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Each time I read Chalder's prose I feel like vomiting.
    The lack of empathy, kindness and so on, of Chalder is beyond me. She should never be allowed to be near someone suffering.
    A screening for sociopathic tendencies should be mandatory before anyone enters the field of psychology.

    I remember reading this kind of stuff (because it's always the same processes that these so called psychologists recycle ad nauseam) for children with MS. The message is basically "Oh stop being a catastrophiser drama queen"

    There's no limit to the scorn I feel for these people.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018 at 4:43 PM
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  12. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There an answer for every type of behaviour. If you don't do things that might cause a crash it is 'avoidance' behaviour, if you do things that cause a crash it is 'all or nothing' behaviour, meaning there is an answer for any behaviour regardless of any internal logical consistency. Any behaviour no matter what it is, is used as confirmation of the somatisation. This is not science in a traditional Popperian sense, which requires an hypothesis that can be falsified.

    Chalder is practising what @dave30th decribed as 'woo woo' therapy. The only other time I have come across such blatant self fulfilling theorising was when I foolishly allowed myself to be persuaded to see an homeopath: when a 'prescription' was associate with improving symptoms this meant that it was working, and when it was associated with worsening symptoms it meant that it was working (though quietly you switch to something different).

    Such blatantant anti-science behaviour is unacceptable in any health care researcher or professional. When will she use Occam's Razor and realise that the simplest explanations is that patients are responding rationally to an underlying medical condition.
     
  13. MEMarge

    MEMarge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  14. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    At what point does this appalling drivel become fraud and assault?
     
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  15. obeat

    obeat Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Psychological inflexibility? I assume they are referring to the psychologists who are completely inflexible.
     
  16. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Perhaps a session of yoga would help. It cures everything, you know.
     
  17. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    utter utter drivel - the Chalder extracts that is - not DTs blog
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018 at 10:48 AM
  18. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    from CBTwatch (comment):

    "I would suggest that all those at the top of policy making and management know very well that the statistics produced about IAPT are rubbish but they all carry on living the lie so that they can claim to all those not in the know of how these stats are produced that they are running a well funded and effective service."

    "Look closely at the stats and you will see ever diminishing reporting of anxiety disorder specific questionnaires (so recovery only based on the basic GAD and PHQ), a reclassifying of people who do not recover as non IAPT (so you will see less people in the stats finishing therapy than starting it), and of course nothing done about the fact that “entering treatment” gets classified as happening at triage because a few bits of information are given out to the patient, while the real waiting lists are not reported on."

    http://www.cbtwatch.com/deluded-secretary-of-state-for-health-and-social-care/#comments

    the whole set up smacks of PACE style manipulation.
     
  19. rvallee

    rvallee Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    About 20 years ago. Their legacy will reflect this and the class action lawsuits will be huge and numerous.

    But the main culprits aren't the researchers, it's the enablers, those who knowingly fail at their basic duties in the face of harmful pseudoscientific crap and blatantly fraudulent research. It's not exceptional that quack researchers driven by ideology exist in any field of science. What is exceptional is that they have monopoly on a topic they have negative knowledge of (in that they genuinely understand less than those who know nothing about it) despite being a minority in the field itself and not having a single bit of objective evidence.

    Over time I'm feeling myself more and more driven by a need to dispense some justice (the legal kind, don't worry). It's as good a motivation as any, I guess. But having insulted and maligned a group of patients that include some damn smart folks, including medical professionals, will severely blow up in their face. It's just a shame that it will do so late, they will hardly pay any price for it. The enabling institutions will, however. They will pay heavily, literally.
     
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  20. AR68

    AR68 Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    You've been very kind to retweet/like my tweets regarding this on Twitter. I feel very strongly about this. I would be astonished if at least one person has not already died as a result of them being seen as an MUS 'type'. This is so going to court.
     
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