Trial By Error: CBT and Irritable Bowel Syndrome


Treating Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) w/ Dr. Emeran Mayer | MGC. Ep. 31
June 10, 2021
Welcome back to the Mind Gut Conversation! Join Dr. Mayer in Ep. 31 of The Mind Gut Conversation featuring himself as the guest! Being interviewed by Mahana Therapeutics' Jana Hoffman, Dr. Mayer discusses Irritable Bowel Syndrome & science-backed ways of treating IBS. Disclaimer: Dr. Mayer is on the Scientific Board of Advisors for Mahana Therapeutics Follow Dr. Mayer: https://linktr.ee/emayer

https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-mind-gut-conversation-emeran-mayer-YhcMnBjG0Ab/
 
Sly Saint said:

Treating Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) w/ Dr. Emeran Mayer | MGC. Ep. 31
June 10, 2021
Welcome back to the Mind Gut Conversation! Join Dr. Mayer in Ep. 31 of The Mind Gut Conversation featuring himself as the guest! Being interviewed by Mahana Therapeutics' Jana Hoffman, Dr. Mayer discusses Irritable Bowel Syndrome & science-backed ways of treating IBS. Disclaimer: Dr. Mayer is on the Scientific Board of Advisors for Mahana Therapeutics Follow Dr. Mayer: https://linktr.ee/emayer

https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-mind-gut-conversation-emeran-mayer-YhcMnBjG0Ab/
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Thanks @Sly Saint, you are supplying me with lots of holiday listening and viewing!
 
Welcome back to the Mind Gut Conversation! Join Dr. Mayer in Ep. 31 of The Mind Gut Conversation featuring himself as the guest! B
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Is it just me?

1st we had the BPS lot busily citing their own work....in their own work.

Now we have this person being interviewed in his own podcast?

How soon beforw we let schoolkids mark their own homework?
 
Invisible Woman said:
Is it just me?

1st we had the BPS lot busily citing their own work....in their own work.

Now we have this person being interviewed in his own podcast?

How soon beforw we let schoolkids mark their own homework?
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Actually a friend of mine who teaches in state secondary quite regularly gets pupils to mark each others' work, during a lesson, where she goes through the items she was expecting to see. I am sure she would not be taken in by someone getting much higher or lower marks than usual. Not so good for all the tests they have been doing for teacher assessed grades for GCSE's this year. I think she was hoping to be able to retire last summer.
 
MEMarge said:
Actually a friend of mine who teaches in state secondary quite regularly gets pupils to mark each others' work, during a lesson, where she goes through the items she was expecting to see. I am sure she would not be taken in by someone getting much higher or lower marks than usual. Not so good for all the tests they have been doing for teacher assessed grades for GCSE's this year. I think she was hoping to be able to retire last summer.
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Marking each other's work is a different kettle of fish, I think.

Occasionally, we did that when I was a schoolgirl. In my final year a teacher who had never taught us before took over our maths class. I wish I'd had her as a teacher sooner!

We broke up into workgroups and marked each others work and had to explain to each other where we'd gone wrong. We all really learned from the experience. Not just maths - we learned to be fair but also be thorough. Someone being nice for the sake of it meant a lesson wasn't learned, and of course if I marked your work today, sooner or later you'd be marking mine.

Being all at the same level with no one in authority meant the work was assessed purely on it's merits.

Very different than each individual marking their own work.
 
Mahana Therapeutics gears up to launch IBS treatment app with $61M series B | FierceBiotech, 2021-08-11

[...]
As Mahana has begun rolling out its digital treatment program to the masses and accelerated its work to apply cognitive behavioral therapy to other long-term health conditions, it hasn’t been without its fair share of critics.

Despite votes of confidence in the form of both FDA and CE mark clearances for Mahana IBS, the program has come under fire from those who take issue with its classification as a digital therapeutic.

One such critic, David Tuller, a journalist and public health expert, has argued in a series of blog posts that the app shouldn’t be marketed as a therapeutic technology, noting that it has only been proven to alleviate some symptoms of IBS, rather than completely curing the condition, and that the clinical trial data suggests those benefits drop significantly within a year of using the program.

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/medte...s-up-to-launch-ibs-treatment-app-61m-series-b

@dave30th
 
The floodgates have clearly been opened as apparently the FDA has approved an ACT app for fibromyalgia, with some people in the NHS trying to capitalize on this and bring it to the UK ASAP. Lots of been said of the FDA's controversial approval of an apparently useless Alzheimer's drug but this is just as bad, it's filling the space with junk, which we know prevents useful things from being worked on. I have no idea what they are doing approving blatant quackery like this.

It's roughly the same crap as the CBT for IBS app, along with infomercial-level news coverage. @dave30th.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/15919446/hope-millions-fibromyalgia-treatment-green-light/
 
rvallee said:
The floodgates have clearly been opened as apparently the FDA has approved an ACT app for fibromyalgia, with some people in the NHS trying to capitalize on this and bring it to the UK ASAP. Lots of been said of the FDA's controversial approval of an apparently useless Alzheimer's drug but this is just as bad, it's filling the space with junk, which we know prevents useful things from being worked on. I have no idea what they are doing approving blatant quackery like this.

It's roughly the same crap as the CBT for IBS app, along with infomercial-level news coverage. @dave30th.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/15919446/hope-millions-fibromyalgia-treatment-green-light/
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"Although it doesn’t target the actual pain, people who have used ACT have reported an improvement in their quality of life."

exactly the same as the research for IBS, or at least that was what Trudie Chalder claimed (ie improved QOL)
 
Sly Saint said:
re-tweeted by Rona Moss-Morris



also

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in case anyone is wondering why I posted the above see an earlier post #209
Mahana Therapeutics gears up to launch IBS treatment app with $61M series B | FierceBiotech, 2021-08-11
also see the other threads on Mahana Therapeutics; Rona Moss-Morris has shares in the company and it is her and TCs questionable research (see David Tullers write ups) that 'provide the evidence' for the therapys 'effectiveness'.
It is also being implemented by the NHS.
 

(re-tweeted by RMM)

article includes:
Irritable bowel syndrome

For those with IBS, when stress induces fight-or-flight mode, it sends signals to the gut to slow digestion, says Rona Moss-Morris, professor of psychology at King’s College London, “or you might suddenly need to go to the toilet. We’re trying to teach people to think, when I’m starting to feel stressed, how do I recognise those physiological signals? And are there things I could do to try to stop my autonomic nervous system kicking in every time I’m stressed?”

Moss-Morris suggests doing something relaxing like going for a walk: “Whatever helps reduce that anxiety. Rather than saying, ‘I can’t be stressed,’ it’s more, when I am, what do I need to do to calm my body down?”

Food can become an anxiety trigger. “When we do cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) for IBS, we look at eating patterns and how people respond to food, and if people are eating healthily and regularly, because that’s how our guts like it.” Do not necessarily fear the gurgling of an empty stomach – having regular breaks between meals is good for our guts.
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In a trial, Moss-Morris and colleagues found that telephone or online CBT led to less severe symptoms and a better quality of life – “and we can sustain those effects at 12 to 24 months”. The therapy includes building healthy eating and exercise routines, techniques to identify and challenge unhelpful thoughts about the condition, stress- and sleep-management techniques, and work to change behaviours related to anxiety about IBS symptoms, such as not going out until bowels are empty, or a toilet location is known.
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Nobody should have to have these symptoms for years. It’s an incredibly distressing condition
Feeling anxious about foods is a natural response to having IBS, but try to restrict your diet as little as possible, says Moss-Morris. “Research into the microbiome suggests that diversity, particularly plant diversity, is good.”

You can’t cure IBS, and much of the evidence for treatments is weak to moderate, but among first-line things to try to manage symptoms such as abdominal pain, diarrhoea or constipation are antispasmodic medicines. These can bring unwanted side-effects, in which case, “peppermint oil might help with the pain”, says Moss-Morris. “Your GP can prescribe medications for constipation and diarrhoea if over-the-counter ones don’t work, and these can have significant effects on symptoms.”

Soluble fibre such as ispaghula is worth trying, taking care not to confuse it with the insoluble fibre found in wheat bran, which can exacerbate symptoms. Research suggests it is worth trying probiotics, but if there’s no effect within 12 weeks, you might as well stop.

The low Fodmap diet – which avoids foods high in short-chain carbohydrates that are poorly absorbed – can be followed temporarily, says Moss-Morris, but only “under the supervision of a dietitian”.

If none of these things work, she says, “there is some evidence that antidepressants called tricyclics, such as amitriptyline, used in doses below the range that have psychiatric antidepressant effects, help some people with symptoms like pain and difficulty sleeping”. A large-scale trial is continuing. “Nobody should have to have these symptoms for years. It’s an incredibly distressing condition.”
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https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...t-stress-does-to-your-body-and-how-to-beat-it
 
Sly Saint said:
re-tweeted by Rona Moss-Morris



also

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THat's a laugh isn't it. 'Illness is not a business opportunity' being retweeted

I think it really is vital that somehow the sums get done on how much money this area is taking in research (which includes the cost of those salaried who spend all their research time on this stuff), treament, conferences and so on

The shocking thing is that for all their selling the idea that 'treating stress might be a good thing' (under what they are actually saying which is 'instead of looking into or treating for anything else' which is the real part of the message/agenda) why is it that noone ever asks or says - where is the bit where you focus on 'do your treatments even help stress?'.

It is such a charade. Why does noone even stop and say 'but even if you were just treating stressed people, isn't the discussion and question really what is the best help'

it is what i call a switch-and-bait because the 'treatments' that mightn't be logical or effective or kind and could indeed hinder and harm people psychologically (noone really is doing that research about whether telling people something will cure it when it doesn't or suggesting it is their problem and no changes to the situation when the situation is the cause is harmful - when 'old psychology' would say treat the situation, remove the hot iron, is this being used as an excuse to not remove the hot iron?).

And yet they are selling it under some banner that doesn't relate to anything they've proven - who is going to disagree with 'reducing stress might help most things' or 'stigma against mental health is bad' -yet noone checks what the people saying it are doing, and assuming what someone 'liking' their tweet thinks they are agreeing with isn't actually the opposite of what these people are actually up to, or not useful, or preventing something even more important from being provided

Who would say no to providing cancer patients with stress relief if they imagine it is more relaxing surroundings, help with things surrounding the illness that can be stressful without support to make them straightforward, options of things many like and can choose from like massage or candles or whatnot. It would be a very different answer if someone suggested replacing biomedical treatment with 'CBT' (all 'CBT' is not the same thing, it's a delivery mechanism) telling them to reframe their symptoms and not pay attention to their body signals or that whether their life is stressful or they have too many demands is a matter of how they are perceiving that etc. or is their responsibility to do something about it. EDIT: Here laypersons only require logic and empathy not 'research' to realise this isn't common sense, nor psychology but its para-version

To me the fact that discussions never get to the question of whether something actually helps the person - the bit where these people everyone likes on the pretence of caring so much about them gets to have their voice and input about whether it did help their body - talks over them, puts words in their mouth etc IS the stigma, IS bigotry, IS the issue of other people telling them their reality. And that stigma is hiding under banners for anti-stigma and people pretending they are helping. It's shockingly harmful psychologically and physically (as it affects their health)
 
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Sly Saint said:

(re-tweeted by RMM)

article includes:




https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...t-stress-does-to-your-body-and-how-to-beat-it
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The way they talk about it is so freaking weird, so much woo about imaginary fears and other nonsense. I've rarely seen people so out of touch with reality, it's right up there with the worst quacks. Like it was written by alien machines who don't know anything about human experience.

And besides being fully generic, it's all missing one key definition: what even is "stress"? It's used willy-nilly to mean anything bad or that people don't like. The word has lost all meaning and the way it's used is recklessly irresponsible.
 
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