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Trial By Error: And Another Prebuttal…

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Daisy, Feb 5, 2019.

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  1. Daisy

    Daisy Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    TiredSam, Dolphin, Esther12 and 28 others like this.
  2. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I hope the editors and the paper’s lawyers are really making the journalist sweat on getting this published.
     
  3. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Do the paper's lawyers and editors know about this potential manipulation yet?
     
  4. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Well in the blog DT says the journalist had some follow up questions their editors had raised
     
  5. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    But the lawyer is probably the bigger fish here, editors are just as susceptible to institutional and political pressure otherwise we would not have a dearth of bothsiderism in mainstream media where they fear not giving alternative facts the same press as facts.
     
  6. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Agreed no evidence the lawyers have looked at it I’m just hoping they have and there’s some internal questioning going on
     
  7. Cinders66

    Cinders66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I’m not sure if This is supposed to silence David, re establish the bps lot when they feel under challenge or both
     
    adambeyoncelowe likes this.
  8. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    As low as the bar for recovery apparently :D. They are playing word games.
     
    Lisa108, 2kidswithME, Forbin and 8 others like this.
  9. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Indeed, i also hope for internal questioning and hopefully internal action that bends towards reality
     
    NelliePledge and JaimeS like this.
  10. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Smearing anonymous patients with a stigmatized illness is easy. Let's see how easy it is to do the same to David whose comments are in the public domain.
     
    Chezboo, ladycatlover, MeSci and 3 others like this.
  11. Oni

    Oni Established Member

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    ''In some ways, it feels like I’ve been engaged in a weird kind of academic performance art.'' :joy:
     
  12. large donner

    large donner Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, I think this journal is setting themselves up for a potential lawsuit, when you look at recent developments in Academic institutes, Parliament, The CDC, NICE, medical journals, scientists and statisticians with large numbers of MPs and such like waking up over the the abuse of health policy carried out by people like Esther Crawley, Sharpe and Wessely.

    Just as the tide is turning massively on the truth it seems a foolish time to do a hit piece on the wrong person.

    It's so 2011. How boring.
     
    TiredSam, DokaGirl, Forbin and 12 others like this.
  13. large donner

    large donner Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Well you have been going on about being promiscuous in theatres or something...... I think ..... :confused:
     
    Oni, JaimeS and andypants like this.
  14. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    No, David, Art is the Lie that tells the Truth.
    You are just telling the Truth.
    On the other hand if performance art is't really art (I have wondered) you may qualify.
    The methodology certainly has a degree of artistry to it.
     
    TrixieStix, Simbindi, Oni and 5 others like this.
  15. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think it hints at how much there is invested in these forms of treatment . CBT is the panacea for all ills and underpins IAPT and MUS.

    Professionally, personally, financially and nationally it is a huge house of cards.
     
    Oni, ladycatlover, EzzieD and 7 others like this.
  16. Peter

    Peter Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Let’s see what this will be, but if you’re about right in your predictions, which I find reasonable, then it’s good night to mankind.

    But I really hope this piece draws attention way beyond the ME community and engages scientists, media and all kinds of people all over the place.

    Great read in so many ways @dave30th

    (quote from
    http://www.virology.ws/2019/02/05/t...ggHEg5ko90qnvcOEKGrEfYTPPqMUC3Q7kFt6OlRuyD2J4
    paragraph 6)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2019
    Trish, Forbin, Starlight and 3 others like this.
  17. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I am glad that the first commentor EV on the blog points out what I was thinking about in relation to journalists having problems understanding why we/DT continue to point out the many methodological flaws of PACE. By using such lax criteria these studies are really not all that relevant to people with ME although they are used to direct policy with regards to our illness. A person with chronic fatigue maybe will benefit from GET a person with ME will not. The lines have been thoroughly blurred and we suffer as a result.

    It is telling that journalists will validate those stories of recovery but pay no heed at all to the stories of people whose lives have been made worse by trying to get back to health using the authorised treatment. No, recovery is the only story worth telling (read--they are the deserving). And our plight is set against the fact that exercise IS touted as good for a whole range of health issues (although I expect some of the evidence is not as robust as is made out). We are programmed to think in terms of exercise benefit so any other narrative seems wrong.

    Anyway, I thought it was a rather good and clear prebuttal. Hopefully any article that materialises will help direct traffic to the Virology blog.
     
    2kidswithME, Forbin, Willow and 8 others like this.
  18. Cinders66

    Cinders66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Tbh in the context of ME/CFS which will be painted as extreme and illogical as animal rights often is , I don’t think they would have gone to the press unless they thought it was to their advantage. If you don’t understand the bizarre ME world and few do , even patients just Challenging the lancet and nice guidelines sounds crazy. Worst case scenario They mighy just regurgitate the past harassment story and then say there’s a new level where patients are now even doing this bla bla bla to try to block science they don’t like, cochrane could feature too.
    Best case scenario it’s presented as a fierce debate with both sides presented fairly but ...
     
    2kidswithME, JemPD, Inara and 3 others like this.
  19. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I wonder whether the journalist has the specific agreement of EC or her advisors to mention her. It would seem a very risky plan on her part. I suspect that there will be two recordings which she might prefer not to have reemerge.

    However the timing of all this does look as though it might have had something to do with those episodes.
     
  20. AR68

    AR68 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Historically I don't think that enough has been made of the 'dustbin diagnosis' element of this group of patients by the patients themselves or the organisations representing them. This has arguably led to infighting and confusion and has been caused, to a large extent, by the medical profession. This bunching together - and its consequences - must be made more prominent by campaigners as it is not their fault but has made everything much worse for them.
     
    Cinders66, Simbindi, DokaGirl and 6 others like this.

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