1. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 10th May 2021 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

Transcriptomic Analysis of Ciguatoxin-Induced Changes in Gene Expression in Primary Cultures of Mice Cortical Neurons, 2018, Rubiolo et al

Discussion in 'Health News and Research unrelated to ME/CFS' started by Hutan, Jan 30, 2021.

  1. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,435
    Likes Received:
    55,372
    Location:
    New Zealand
    I've been interested in ciguatera for a while, because exposure to the ciguatoxin can cause long term symptoms that have a lot of similarities with those of ME/CFS. And also because early on in my illness I saw a paper by a Japanese researcher that found similarities in protein expression, I think it was, between ciguatera and ME/CFS patients.

    This 2018 paper is interesting because the researchers found upregulated Ephrin genes, as Maureen Hansen's group has just found in ME/CFS patients.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5983248/

    Abstract
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
    Kitty, Peter Trewhitt and Andy like this.
  2. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

    Messages:
    12,918
    Likes Received:
    93,297
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    ?

    Chronic phase lipids in sera of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), chronic ciguatera fish poisoning (CCFP), hepatitis B, and cancer with antigenic epitope resembling ciguatoxin, as assessed with MAb‐CTX
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jcla.10079
     
    Kitty and Hutan like this.
  3. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,435
    Likes Received:
    55,372
    Location:
    New Zealand
    From this 2018 study
    Background on ciguatera:

    Long-term symptoms with similarities to ME/CFS (there are other accounts of symptoms that sound very similar indeed):

    They think they have identified a mechanism for 'long-lasting neurological changes':

    On upregulated ephrins and axon guidance:
     
    Kitty and Andy like this.
  4. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,435
    Likes Received:
    55,372
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Good try, but I don't think that was the paper I was thinking of. I'll try to find it.
     
    Kitty and Andy like this.
  5. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,850
    Likes Received:
    14,935
    From memory, a researcher from the University of Hawaii worked on this but also the NIH or someplace like that. One of the problems was he called it ciguatera while the other papers spoke about anticardiolipin.

    It was very exciting work but just seemed to fade away. When the doctor died no one took it up.

    Another lost opportunity to either confirm something or prove it false.
     
    Hutan and Kitty like this.
  6. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    16,424
    The National CFIDS Foundation website might be a good place to look for information on this as they were interested in this angle.
     
    Mithriel, Hutan and Kitty like this.
  7. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,435
    Likes Received:
    55,372
    Location:
    New Zealand
    @Snow Leopard, have you seen this? In your cornucopia of papers, you seem to be focusing on some of the molecules and processes that are thought to be important in long term ciguatera. There are quite a lot of recent papers on the pathology of ciguatera, as, with climate change, it seems to becoming more of a risk to the people with the funds to investigate things.

    To me, it seems quite important that here is a somewhat understood pathology that causes symptoms very like ME/CFS - chronic, relapsing. Alcohol seems to exacerbate symptoms; the development of a range of food allergies (not just to foods containing low levels of the ciguatoxin) seems quite common.
     
    Andy likes this.
  8. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,771
    Likes Received:
    19,202
    Location:
    Australia
    The common patterns between ciguatera and ME are interesting, multiple underlying causes with commonalities in the end point.

    The study (in the OP) is less compelling because it is based on cell culture of mice neurons, rather than human patients and I am interested in the interactions on a physiological scale (where the microenvironment is of utmost importance), which doesn't really translate well from cell culture.

    Also, the link to the actual study which is missing from the OP: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5983248/
     
    FMMM1, Andy, Aslaug and 1 other person like this.
  9. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,435
    Likes Received:
    55,372
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Andy and Aslaug like this.

Share This Page