Too much salt suppresses phagocytes

Mij · May 5, 2021

Salt disrupts the respiratory chain in cells

Working with biochemist and metabolomics expert Dr. Stefan Kempa of BIMSB, the researchers began in the lab by looking at the metabolism of immune cells that had been exposed to high salt concentrations. Changes appeared after just three hours. "It disrupts the respiratory chain, causing the cells to produce less ATP and consume less oxygen," explains Geisberger. ATP (adenosine triphosphate) is the universal fuel that powers all cells. It provides energy for the "chemical work" - synthesizing proteins and other molecules - required for muscle power and metabolic regulation. ATP is produced in the mitochondria, the cell's "power plant," using a complex series of biochemical reactions known as the respiratory chain. "Salt very specifically inhibits complex II in the respiratory chain."

This has consequences: The lack of energy causes the monocytes to mature differently. "The phagocytes, whose task is to identify and eliminate pathogens in the body, were able to fight off infections more effectively. But this could also promote inflammation, which might increase cardiovascular risk," explains Müller.
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https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2021-04/mdcf-tms043021.php

Jonathan Edwards · May 5, 2021

I don't see the sense in this. Phagocytes probably do not work well in a high salt solution but eating more salt does not give you high salt solution in the body - you just pee out more salt each day and the sodium level stays the same. All the stuff about inflammation sounds half-baked.

rvallee · May 5, 2021

Biology is not my thing but are there implications with the nanoneedle and their use of salt as a stressor?

Ravn · May 6, 2021

OP article said:

ATP is produced in the mitochondria, the cell's "power plant," using a complex series of biochemical reactions known as the respiratory chain. "Salt very specifically inhibits complex II in the respiratory chain."
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This looks different to ME? Isn't complex II supposed to be working ok in ME, but complex V is not? But then complex II wasn't tested in salt AFAIR, so who knows.

rvallee said: ↑

Biology is not my thing but are there implications with the nanoneedle and their use of salt as a stressor?
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OP article said:

the researchers began in the lab by looking at the metabolism of immune cells that had been exposed to high salt concentrations. Changes appeared after just three hours
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How long does it take for the nanoneedle to register any changes?

The quote below is from a hypothesis paper that speculates about salt issues in ME and the nanoneedle. I don't really understand it but it seems to propose a different mechanism from the one described in the OP.

The response of PBMCs from ME/CFS patients to a hyperosmotic stressor (high extracellular sodium) in a test measuring impedance was dramatically different from the response observed among the controls so that this test may have the potential as a diagnostic marker of ME/CFS [52]. The hyperosmotic stress applied, which induces cellular shrinking, is a massive challenge for cellular osmo- and volume regulators. NHE1 is most likely the most important volume regulator in leukocytes [53]. As shown before, suspension of human PBMC in exactly the same hypertonic medium indeed induced rapid cellular shrinkage and subsequent activation of NHE1 [53] leading to sodium influx which is followed by influx of water causing repletion of the cellular volume. Intracellular sodium and cell shape (through cellular volume) are certainly determinants of electrical conductance in such an experimental setting measuring impedance. We wonder whether the altered change in conductance in ME/CFS is related to an altered NHE1 activity and potentially secondary consequences arising from sodium overload and potentially calcium overload.
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https://translational-medicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12967-021-02833-2
Discussed here: https://www.s4me.info/threads/patho...ces-in-me-cfs-2021-wirth-scheibenbogen.20256/

rvallee · May 6, 2021

Ravn said: ↑

How long does it take for the nanoneedle to register any changes?
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Looks to be between 30 minutes and 2 hours with a peak around 1h.

Midnattsol · May 6, 2021

I've seen complex two mentioned in the context of ME as well, but I can't remember where.

Exposing the immune cells to salt outside the body is not the same as what happens in the body when we eat salt. Giving someone a 6gr supplement of salt seems silly, as a rule of thumb we're told that generally people eat ~10g/salt a day, if that is the case for these participants they would have a total intake of 16g. That's a lot, and probably not something most people would consume. Neither would most people consume six grams in one go. Giving someone pizza and taking their blood afterwards says nothing about the salt in the pizza being the cause for any changes seen in the blood.

In the nanoneedle, didn't they just use salt as a general stressor for the cells, not to test a theory that hyperosmotic stress specifically would create a signal?

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Too much salt suppresses phagocytes

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