Esther12
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Moved from this thread:
Facts and Myths about Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, 2022, Per Fink et al. (Danish Medical Journal article)
This post has been split into 3 parts for easier reading
________________
A bit OT, but I was just looking at this 2004-ish presentation from Fink: https://web.archive.org/web/2007030...h.dk:80/cl_psych/term/TERM-UK/term-dias02.pdf
Someone had pointed out some bits like "Finally, these pts. really can be a right pain and you may need a time-out resulting in an
admission or referral of the pt. This is quite legitimate, but you should always acknowledge that this is the actual reason for admission/referral", and "It is crucial that you resist the temptation to correct the patient, no matter
how crazy the patient sounds."
There was a lot of troubling stuff in there, but also some bits that I thought was better than I expected, and that I agreed with. It was 120 pages long, and these were the quotes I pulled out for my own interest, in case they're of value to anyone else.
"When we have discussed the contents of this course, we have been talking
much about tools. A tool, which is nearly always effective regarding ’heart
sink patients’ is: [picture of hammer]"
"The kind of tools we will be working with for the next 2 days are primarily
”elements in the dialogue”. We are hoping to teach you some magic words
and sentences during this course. In addition to this we will go over some
standard questionnaires used a a diagnostic aid. This will be at the second
evening meeting.
(In the bubble it says in Finnish:
”I sometimes see symptoms like these in people under stress. I wonder if
this could have happened in your case?")"
"The model we will be using is named the TERM-model. It is an extention of The Reattribution Model, developed by
Linda Gask in Manchester. For several years she has educated GPs in this model."
"As to no. 1, the important thing is that the patient feels understood."
"Definition of Somatization and Somatization and
Functional Disorders
Conditions where the patient
experiences or worries about physical
symptoms and attributes them to
somatic disease, but no adequate
organic or pathophysological basis for
the symptoms can be found.
Fink et al 1999"
"In 1989 Kroenke & Mangelsdorff registered the primary reason for the visits
of 1000 patients in a medical out-patients’ clinic in USA.
They found these 10 symptoms to the most frequent (READ ALOUD).
It is noticeable how often (or rarely) the GPs found an organic cause for the
complaints - that is marked with red.
Only in 12-13% of the cases they found an organic or pathophysiological
explanation for the symptoms.
In other words, it is rather the exception than the rule that we find an organic
cause for a physical symptom (repeat if necessary)."
"The difference between facultative somatising patients and genuine somatizing patients is that facultative
somatizing patients accept the correct diagnosis when it is made, whereas it is impossible or difficult to
convince a genuine somatizing patient that s/he doesn’t have a somatic disorder.
A patient with anxiety will say ”yes, it’s good that nothing serious is wrong with my heart doctor, but what
do we do about my anxiety?"
"Peter Salmon and co-workers asked a large group of patients in general practice how they had perceived the
GP’s explanation that nothing organic was wrong.
They found 3 typical experiences.
The great majority felt rejected and felt that the GP didn’t tale them seriously.
Another group felt the GP had, what we have called, a Laissez-faire attitude. The GP let matters take their
own course and let the patient control of dialogue and the treatment.
A lot of patients were actually quite pleased with this, but from a therapeutical point of view it is quite
unfortunate.
As an example they mention a pt. who on the internet has found a description of fibromyalgia. The pt. sees
the GP and asks if that is what she has got. The GP says, that he has had the same thought.
The patient therefore wonders why the GP hasn’t told her earlier, why he kept it a secret.
The GP’s credibility and authority will decrease in the eyes of that patient.
Den rigtige måde at gøre det på, og den måde som vi arbejder på at lære på dette kursus, er såkaldt empowerment eller
kvalificerende forklaring, som vi har oversat det til.
The right way to do this, which is also the way we are working on learning on this course, is called
empowerment or qualified explanation.
The aim is to make the patient feel that the GP’s explanation has helped her to a better understanding of her
illness and symptoms, and feels that she herself can do something to get better, and that she can control her
symptoms to some extent.
I say ”explain” the patient, but as I mentioned before, the pt. sees herself as the expert, and it is therefore
crucial that you negotiate with the patient - expert to expert- so to speak in order to make the pt. accept and
understand a link."
"Especially in somatizing patients we have to accept that the health care
system, and we as physicians, to a great extent contribute to the patients
becoming chronically ill."
"The wording ”to overlook something” is an unfortunate one.
It is better to talk about having made a wrong differential diagnosis, and that
of course is unfortunate, just as much as it is to make a wrong diagnosis
between two somatic disorders.
You can rather say that the diagnosis is delayed, and this probably rarely has
any serious consequences for the pt"
"You may encounter the attitude that the pt. is to blame,- that they are given
the examinations and treatments that they have asked for themselves.
This is caused by the lack of understanding of the character of the
psychiatric disorders.
The problem here is that the pt. cannot be made responsible since the
motives are unconscious and irrational."
continued next post
Facts and Myths about Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, 2022, Per Fink et al. (Danish Medical Journal article)
This post has been split into 3 parts for easier reading
________________
A bit OT, but I was just looking at this 2004-ish presentation from Fink: https://web.archive.org/web/2007030...h.dk:80/cl_psych/term/TERM-UK/term-dias02.pdf
Someone had pointed out some bits like "Finally, these pts. really can be a right pain and you may need a time-out resulting in an
admission or referral of the pt. This is quite legitimate, but you should always acknowledge that this is the actual reason for admission/referral", and "It is crucial that you resist the temptation to correct the patient, no matter
how crazy the patient sounds."
There was a lot of troubling stuff in there, but also some bits that I thought was better than I expected, and that I agreed with. It was 120 pages long, and these were the quotes I pulled out for my own interest, in case they're of value to anyone else.
"When we have discussed the contents of this course, we have been talking
much about tools. A tool, which is nearly always effective regarding ’heart
sink patients’ is: [picture of hammer]"
"The kind of tools we will be working with for the next 2 days are primarily
”elements in the dialogue”. We are hoping to teach you some magic words
and sentences during this course. In addition to this we will go over some
standard questionnaires used a a diagnostic aid. This will be at the second
evening meeting.
(In the bubble it says in Finnish:
”I sometimes see symptoms like these in people under stress. I wonder if
this could have happened in your case?")"
"The model we will be using is named the TERM-model. It is an extention of The Reattribution Model, developed by
Linda Gask in Manchester. For several years she has educated GPs in this model."
"As to no. 1, the important thing is that the patient feels understood."
"Definition of Somatization and Somatization and
Functional Disorders
Conditions where the patient
experiences or worries about physical
symptoms and attributes them to
somatic disease, but no adequate
organic or pathophysological basis for
the symptoms can be found.
Fink et al 1999"
"In 1989 Kroenke & Mangelsdorff registered the primary reason for the visits
of 1000 patients in a medical out-patients’ clinic in USA.
They found these 10 symptoms to the most frequent (READ ALOUD).
It is noticeable how often (or rarely) the GPs found an organic cause for the
complaints - that is marked with red.
Only in 12-13% of the cases they found an organic or pathophysiological
explanation for the symptoms.
In other words, it is rather the exception than the rule that we find an organic
cause for a physical symptom (repeat if necessary)."
"The difference between facultative somatising patients and genuine somatizing patients is that facultative
somatizing patients accept the correct diagnosis when it is made, whereas it is impossible or difficult to
convince a genuine somatizing patient that s/he doesn’t have a somatic disorder.
A patient with anxiety will say ”yes, it’s good that nothing serious is wrong with my heart doctor, but what
do we do about my anxiety?"
"Peter Salmon and co-workers asked a large group of patients in general practice how they had perceived the
GP’s explanation that nothing organic was wrong.
They found 3 typical experiences.
The great majority felt rejected and felt that the GP didn’t tale them seriously.
Another group felt the GP had, what we have called, a Laissez-faire attitude. The GP let matters take their
own course and let the patient control of dialogue and the treatment.
A lot of patients were actually quite pleased with this, but from a therapeutical point of view it is quite
unfortunate.
As an example they mention a pt. who on the internet has found a description of fibromyalgia. The pt. sees
the GP and asks if that is what she has got. The GP says, that he has had the same thought.
The patient therefore wonders why the GP hasn’t told her earlier, why he kept it a secret.
The GP’s credibility and authority will decrease in the eyes of that patient.
Den rigtige måde at gøre det på, og den måde som vi arbejder på at lære på dette kursus, er såkaldt empowerment eller
kvalificerende forklaring, som vi har oversat det til.
The right way to do this, which is also the way we are working on learning on this course, is called
empowerment or qualified explanation.
The aim is to make the patient feel that the GP’s explanation has helped her to a better understanding of her
illness and symptoms, and feels that she herself can do something to get better, and that she can control her
symptoms to some extent.
I say ”explain” the patient, but as I mentioned before, the pt. sees herself as the expert, and it is therefore
crucial that you negotiate with the patient - expert to expert- so to speak in order to make the pt. accept and
understand a link."
"Especially in somatizing patients we have to accept that the health care
system, and we as physicians, to a great extent contribute to the patients
becoming chronically ill."
"The wording ”to overlook something” is an unfortunate one.
It is better to talk about having made a wrong differential diagnosis, and that
of course is unfortunate, just as much as it is to make a wrong diagnosis
between two somatic disorders.
You can rather say that the diagnosis is delayed, and this probably rarely has
any serious consequences for the pt"
"You may encounter the attitude that the pt. is to blame,- that they are given
the examinations and treatments that they have asked for themselves.
This is caused by the lack of understanding of the character of the
psychiatric disorders.
The problem here is that the pt. cannot be made responsible since the
motives are unconscious and irrational."
continued next post
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