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The biology of coronavirus COVID-19 - including research and treatments

Discussion in 'Epidemics (including Covid-19, not Long Covid)' started by Trish, Mar 12, 2020.

  1. JaneL

    JaneL Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    A phase 1/2 trial of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine was started in July looking at how the vaccine works in people who are HIV positive compared to people are are HIV negative:
    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04444674

    I learnt that from Hilda Bastian’s very helpful timeline of the Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine trials:
    http://hildabastian.net/index.php/100
     
    MEMarge, hinterland, Michelle and 2 others like this.
  2. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    2,648
    Yip standard advice for policy folks:
    1) evidence based policy development - that's the official Government stance;
    2) policy based evidence development - your Minister wants something done --- go "develop" the evidence base!
     
    MEMarge, Sarah94, JemPD and 2 others like this.
  3. hinterland

    hinterland Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    337
    Is there any reason to believe that the dysregulated (upregulated) RNase-L pathway that has been reported in ME/CFS would make an mRNA vaccine less effective?

    https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Ribonuclease_L
     
    jaded, Amw66 and boolybooly like this.
  4. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    12,468
    Location:
    Canada
  5. Wits_End

    Wits_End Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,343
    Location:
    UK London
    So, the UK is to be the first country to administer the Pfizer vaccine, and they even had Clare Gerada on the news tonight telling a couple of people with queries how safe it was. I feel so reassured ...

    EDIT: Also, this seems a bit odd, and doesn't fill me with confidence. Is it common for producers of new vaccines to be indemnified against legal action if the vaccine has any nasty effects on anyone?
    http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...government/ar-BB1bzBv0?ocid=ASUDHP&li=BBoPWjQ
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
    Mij, MeSci, ScottTriGuy and 3 others like this.
  6. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Does anyone know what the adjuvant is?
     
    MEMarge and hinterland like this.
  7. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    3,827
    Location:
    Australia
    The Pfizer vaccine doesn't contain a separate adjuvant. It is simply the mRNA gene for the spike protein with a (proprietary) lipid coating (so that the mRNA survives long enough to be transcribed).
     
    Yessica, Michelle, MEMarge and 12 others like this.
  8. Binkie4

    Binkie4 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @snowleopard
    I haven't understood this fully. Do we know yet what is likely to be needed in terms of follow up doses after the initial two doses? And for which vaccine?
     
  9. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    6,333
    Thanks , that's good to know
    I was thinking more of the astra zeneca one - as it is more " traditional " ?
     
    MEMarge likes this.
  10. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,648
    There's a BBC Radio 4 program "How to vaccinate the world" which might help to provide some insight - a lot of these questions can't be answered yet --- once you've vaccinated a few million people, and time has elapsed, then you'll presumably have evidence of whether boosters are required and after what time period.
     
    Mij, oldtimer and Binkie4 like this.
  11. hinterland

    hinterland Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    337
    I'd like to know the answer on this too. Perhaps the adenovirus vector is sufficiently immunogenic that an additional adjuvant isn't needed??
     
    MeSci likes this.
  12. Binkie4

    Binkie4 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    2,343
    Thanks @FMMM1.

    Do you have time details for the programme. Sounds interesting.
     
  13. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    4,503
    Location:
    Cornwall, UK
    oldtimer, Amw66 and Binkie4 like this.
  14. Binkie4

    Binkie4 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,343
    MeSci likes this.
  15. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,648
    Just Google "Radio 4 Schedule" - you can access them via this link as well*:

    Episode 3
    How to Vaccinate the World
    Tim Harford reports on what we know and don't know about the Oxford/Astra Zeneca Covid 19 vaccine with a panel of experts.
    *https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000py6x
     
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  16. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Australia
    We do not know yet. It really depends on whether the virus develops sufficient variation in the epitope region in 3-5 years - similar to the difference between flu strains for example, would require re-vaccination. I strongly suspect the vaccine induced antibodies will last at least 5 years, like most other vaccines.

    The AstraZeneca vaccine is not in the least "traditional", as it uses an adenovirus vector - there are no currently approved vaccines like this at all.

    The purpose of an adjuvant is additional immune system stimulation against foreign antigens. This would actually harm the efficacy of viral vector vaccines and mRNA (or DNA) vaccines since the vector would be eliminated by the immune system before it is able to be transcribed!

    Adjuvants are typically used for subunit vaccines.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5084984/
     
    Yessica, MEMarge, hinterland and 8 others like this.
  17. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thank you
     
    MEMarge, MeSci and Snow Leopard like this.
  18. Binkie4

    Binkie4 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    2,343
    MEMarge, MeSci and Trish like this.
  19. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    6,333
  20. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,827
    Location:
    Australia
    To put it as an obscure analogy: you need to make two trips and your vehicle choices are a Ferrari Portofino and a Morris Marina.

    These people are therefore arguing that one trip in a Morris Marina, the second trip in a Ferrari is cheaper than two trips in a Ferrari. Plus you still have the enjoyable experience of one trip in a Ferrari, rather than two mediocre trips in a Morris Marina, with risk of not getting to your destination on the second trip due to unreliability.
     

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