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The biology of coronavirus COVID-19 - including research and treatments

Discussion in 'Epidemics (including Covid-19, not Long Covid)' started by Trish, Mar 12, 2020.

  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    https://www.ukri.org/news/5-million-for-new-research-projects-investigating-how-coronavirus-spreads/
     
    merylg, Michelle and MEMarge like this.
  2. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Coronavirus: Oxford University to resume vaccine trial after pause

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54132066
     
    Michelle likes this.
  3. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This was a foregone conclusion, they were just going through the motions.

    "Too big to fail"...
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
    FMMM1, Amw66, Michelle and 1 other person like this.
  4. Sisyphus

    Sisyphus Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Do you think the trial should have been halted permanently?
     
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  5. Sisyphus

    Sisyphus Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    In other words “the methods used were unable to find the physiological problem, so use BS and distractions to treat them”
     
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  6. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I am a big fan of Hilda Bastian's vaccine updates, she seems to know far more than any other commentator about the details.

    https://absolutelymaybe.plos.org/20...is-put-on-hold-covid-19-vaccine-race-month-9/

    The problem is the communication and timeframe. They haven't done in-depth investigation. They're pretending like they've checked and disproven the link with the vaccination, when they've simply accepted that this may be a rare side effect.

    A reminder that the AstraZeneca vaccine had the highest rate of adverse effects (fever and similar) https://www.wired.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-with-minor-side-effects-could-still-be-pretty-bad/
    Which are a consequence of the high doses compared to typical (approved) vaccines- I'd speculate and suggest this increases the risk of the rare autoimmune consequences.

    In animal models of autoimmune illness that use "Freund's adjuvant" (typically a bacterial antigen with some sort of oil based adjuvant), the high rate of inducing autoimmune illness is simply a consequence of the high doses they use (roughly 20-100 times the dose/per body weight as immunisations in humans). (note these studies aren't safety trials, they are deliberately inducing autoimmune illness for study of the immune system)
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
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  7. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Coronavirus: Monoclonal antibodies to begin UK trial



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54120753
     
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  8. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I thought antibiotics were only effective against bacteria, not viruses.
     
  9. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It doesn't, but sometime patients can develop a bacterial complication from the virus.
     
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  10. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Ah ha! Thank you.
     
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  11. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    https://www.ukri.org/news/recovery-...-investigational-antibody-cocktail-in-the-uk/
     
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  12. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    A tiny monoclonal antibody blocks SARS-CoV-2 in animal models. A journal preproof is available. This is not a normal complete human antibody, only one particular domain from the variable heavy chain.

    The mention of a tiny antibody naturally makes me think of the nanobodies that occur in species like lamas and alpacas. This, however, is an artificial molecule discovered by searching a huge library of potential human antibodies using the virus spike protein as "bait". It binds to the spike, but not to human cells, which is encouraging in terms of potential side effects.
     
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  13. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    9/14/2020

    Tiny Antibody Component Highly Effective Against COVID-19

    https://www.upmc.com/media/news/091420-mellors-dimitrov-covid-ab8

    University of Pittsburgh Schools of Health Sciences

    [ETA: Same research @anciendaze posted about above.]
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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  14. Keela Too

    Keela Too Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Interesting.

    I wonder how long it persists in the blood?

    Would it be used as a preventative (eg medical staff treating infected) as well as a treatment of infected?

    Could whole populations receive it and could it help eradicate the virus???

    A lot might ride on side effects and it’s effective life.
     
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  15. Keela Too

    Keela Too Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    This is interesting
     
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  16. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Good questions. I think my biggest question is how long it would take for it to get approval for use in humans. I believe it's only been used in mice and hamsters so far. If it takes as long as a vaccine trial, the pandemic might be largely over by the time it gets approved. It might be that they accelerate the approval of treatments, as opposed to preventatives (like vaccines), because the risks have to be weighed differently between something given to all healthy people and something given only to people who are already ill.
     
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  17. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    Covid-19 Hyperinflammation and Post-Covid-19 Illness May Be Rooted in Mast Cell Activation Syndrome
    Open access pre-proof PDF, https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30732-3/pdf
     
  18. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Normal antibodies have half lives ranging from around 5-21 days depending on type. Not sure about this one specifically.
     
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  19. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Just a comment about Ab8. Even if this does not provide long-term immunity, it could still be effective in stopping outbreaks, which is an important part of epidemic control. While this has not undergone any testing in humans, it has been tested against a library of human proteins, and it bound to none of these. This is encouraging. If this were our only weapon against SARS-CoV-2, the time required for human testing would be a problem. This could still become available by the middle of 2021. So could a number of other measures, which would end the crisis phase of COVID-19.

    SARS-CoV-2 will be around for a long time, but it doesn't have bring civilization to a halt.
     
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  20. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The molecule seems to be just one Ig domain, being what is n=known as Vh (variable domain of heavy chain).
    That many well mean that it is small enough to be lost in urine so the half life may be quite short - a day or two maybe. IgG is around 20 days.

    A potential problem is that the specific binding sequence may itself be immunogenic - generating anti-idiotype that would neutralise any further doses after the first couple of weeks.

    Clever mini-antibodies have been developed over a couple of decades but so far, as far as I know, all the licensed antibodies (i.e. proven useful) are full structure. A mini-antibody does not have all the clever signalling equipment attached that facilitates an immune response.

    Mini-antibodies might be good for controlling severe viraemia over a 24 period. I am not sure how much conclusion to draw from a ten fold reduction in viral load in mice. That may be under optimal conditions and to clear a virus you need to do much better than that - maybe a millionfold reduction.
     
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