Sudden appetite

[NelliePledge]

Mod note: For technical reasons, the initial post in this thread had to be deleted. The post was from FicaR94:

Does it happen to you that you feel full and than suddenly very hungry, without gradual increase? It often happens to me, what would be the explanation for that?​

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Reply from NelliePledge:

Hi and welcome

I only have a limited understanding of science stuff but I think our metabolism as people with ME can be pretty messed up. I struggle with my weight (too heavy). I also have long spells when I am not at all hungry. Unfortunately for me once I do get hungry I struggle to stop eating. Especially sugary food is really hard for me to stop. If I have one biscuit from a packet the rest of the packet will also get eaten. As I’m overweight I’m trying to work with the off/on appetite by doing 16:8 eating and also writing down everything I eat in a notebook so I have to think about it rather than let my on appetite dominate.

Obviously if someone has an off/on appetite but a low body weight it is a whole different issue that would need different strategies.

 

[Kitty]

Does it happen to you that you feel full and than suddenly very hungry, without gradual increase? It often happens to me, what would be the explanation for that?

I think it can be quite complicated, as sensations of hunger don't only come from an empty stomach. Hormones are at least as important; there are several different ones involved, and as soon as your body starts generating them, you're likely to experience feelings of hunger.

Another reason is early satiety, which is something I've always had. I feel full really quickly, even though I've only eaten a smallish portion. I sometimes feel uncomfortably full for several hours, but then it passes very suddenly. Then of course I'm genuinely hungry again, as I haven't actually eaten all that much.

 

[Subtropical Island]

All of the above.

...and sometimes I mistake indigestion for hunger.
(Especially as some forms of gastro discomfort can be temporarily eased by eating. So I drink something and wait for a bit to see.)

 

[mat]

I also experience this regularly. Sometimes, I wake up at night and my stomach feels so empty that I feel nauseous. I'm underweight though and could not regain weight yet. In my case, hyperinsulinism has been diagnosed.

 

[Invisible Woman]

I found the video posted by @Ryan31337 discussing gastric dumping very interesting-

https://www.s4me.info/threads/help-hypoglycemia-coming-back-with-a-vengeance.4840/#post-87519

I find it very common not to know if I'm hungry, or nauseous. If I'm nauseous and I eat it will get worse, naturally. If I'm hungry and I eat it goes away.

It is possible, I think, for the stomach (I mean the specific organ here) to be full while you feel hungry. This can happen with gastroparesis or delayed gastric emptying. Combining carbs and fats will most likely trigger this for me.

I find eating little and often suits my stomach best. I need to avoid getting too hungry as if I eat to much in one go, I will regret it later.

 

[alktipping]

i have had thirty years of little to no feelings of being hungry .nausea often puts me of eating so for me it is always essen oder tot . i eat at various times because it is necessary frequently i notice the time and wonder how long i last ate something if it is more than 8 hours i will eat something on the plus side for the last 3 years i have had a lot of cakes trying to keep my weight up to 10 stones which is underweight for me .

 

[mat]

I find it very common not to know if I'm hungry, or nauseous. If I'm nauseous and I eat it will get worse, naturally. If I'm hungry and I eat it goes away.

Before my endocrinological checkup, I felt similarly insecure if I should eat when feeling nauseous. Thanks to blood sugar monitoring, I found out how to distinguish hyperinsulinism from hyperinsulinaemic hypoglycemia. This is only my experience and it might be quite different for other people. Heavy hunger or tremors occur with normal blood sugar. If I also feel nauseous, I'm hypoglycemic and I respond to it accordingly as they showed me during the oral glucose tolerance test, where my blood sugar also dropped significantly after 3-4 hours while being hyperinsulinaemic all along. When feeling nauseous, before eating carbohydrates, which will require energy before the contained glucose is released, I consume an adequate amount of glucose.

I also adjusted my overall nutrition plan to avoid sugars. Sugar has a greater impact on the insulin household and insulin sensitivity, while carbohydrates release their glucose rather slowly and don't make such a great difference. My endocrinologist also recommended eating more proteins instead. So I always have nuts with me.

It is possible, I think, for the stomach (I mean the specific organ here) to be full while you feel hungry. This can happen with gastroparesis or delayed gastric emptying. Combining carbs and fats will most likely trigger this for me.

The food's contained energy isn't immediately released, but the pancreas will already trigger insulin release when the stomach is being filled with sugar-containing food. Insulin causes hunger until the gap is closed.

 

[Invisible Woman]

The food's contained energy isn't immediately released, but the pancreas will already trigger insulin release when the stomach is being filled with sugar-containing food. Insulin causes hunger until the gap is closed.

Yep I think this is precisely what's happening.

I was diagnosed when the whole ME as caused or perpetuated by candida was all the rage. So I have spent a lot of time and energy working out my diet. Strict, supervised sugar free diets etc made no difference to my ME but were miraculous in controlling IBS which predated ME by a very long time.

Even so, delayed gastric emptying and then dumping can happen, even with a well managed diet.

I have never had an abnormal blood sugar test but there's definitely something not right about whatever feedback loop distinguishes between hunger and nausea. Eating little and often seems to help avoid the problem.

My endocrinologist also recommended eating more proteins instead. So I always have nuts with me.

I also find making sure I get enough lean protein helps to keep things under control. Alas, I am allergic to some nuts and others seem to give me indigestion. Annoying as I rather like them.

 

[mat]

I have never had an abnormal blood sugar test but there's definitely something not right about whatever feedback loop distinguishes between hunger and nausea. Eating little and often seems to help avoid the problem.

Besides the prolonged OGTT, I've never had abnormal blood sugar results either because hypoglycemia only happens rarely and when I feel nauseous, I wouldn't visit a doctor. They were only mildly low (66) and normal reference ranges aren't very adaptive to your age and gender, so nobody would notice. I'm not even sure if they had lower limits for blood sugar. HB-A1C is also an indicator that can be used for long-term low sugar levels. Here, I know that they didn't have lower limits. This is why I do my own research, find large studies that try to establish reference ranges, adapt them to my gender and age, then I know what's really out of range and what not. The Canadian Health Measures Survey is large attempt for doing so and it applied to my ethnicity. Koreans also made large surveys on their ethnicity.

I'm also allergic to one kind of nut, so I stick with Cashews. Cashews are also rich in Tryptophan and Tyrosine what is useful for serotonin and dopamine levels.

 

[Invisible Woman]

They were only mildly low (66) and normal reference ranges aren't very adaptive to your age and gender, so nobody would notice. I'm not even sure if they had lower limits for blood sugar.

They do indeed have lower limits. I have several type 1 diabetics in my family.

The UK current advice for diabetics seems to be 4mmol/l is the lowest level blood sugars should drop to then before a meal up to 7mmol/l. It does make a difference if you're an adult or a child - at certain times the child's figure range extends to 9mmol/l -
https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-t...6v7QIVu2DmCh13fAiBEAAYASAAEgIDKfD_BwE#glucose

The HbA1c is an average reading. In diabetics managing their condition too tightly will result in hypos. This isn't ideal because of risk if accident and so on and although they may not be aware of beginning a hypo at the time, they will probably realize they have had one - assuming they've had the right information on managing the condition.

On the other hand regularly having high sugar levels does the damage in the long term with risks to kidneys, eyesight, peripheral nerve damage, complications leading to the need for amputation etc. Some patients can be completely unaware that their blood sugars run high and so without regular readings and monitoring would be unknowingly building up irreversible damage.

Cashews are also rich in Tryptophan and Tyrosine what is useful for serotonin and dopamine levels.

I'm not a big fan unless they come roasted and salted, which makes 'em.less healthy. Even plain cashews don't agree with my guts.

Usually I find making sure I have a little protein in the morning - an egg is a good start to the day - this leaves me far less likely to develop that suddenly starving sensation. I find if I make sure I have my protein planned during meals I'm less likely to skip it or suffer from a delayed snack if I'm at the dentist or have a doctor's appointment, or something like that in the pre-pandemic days.

 

[mat]

They do indeed have lower limits.

I was just referring to the general practitioners in my past and their interpretation tables. Certainly, there are references for both blood glucose and Hb1Ac.