My understanding is that this should only be done with medical grade saline from a pharmacy, as water used to make non medical grade saline, including tap water, can contain organisms that get in to the sinuses and beyond and has caused deaths.
Streaming nose first thing in the morning - allergies? Bug? Some weird ME/CFS thing?
- Thread starter Sasha
- Start date
Yes, basically I should have thought that's common sense, to use clean water, and tap water varies from place to place. Our tap water normally stinks of chlorine, nevertheless it goes through a carbon filter as well before consumption. The time dripping through the filter tank ensures that the chlorine is gassed off.
My understanding is that the organisms you mention are amoebae, and they are contracted by river bathing. Its true that some have been discovered in loft tanks; our water is direct from the main.
I do not see any see any reason why anyone should not simply boil their water at home. Not forgetting to cool it down before use, naturally.
Common sense, really, the secret ingredient.
Its not exactly rocket science; any decent mother can sterilise her baby's bottle.
Do you sterilise the air you breathe or buy it compressed in tanks?
I think it's wise when making recommendations to give sensible warnings and not assume they are common sense. This paper give examples of people affected by amoeba infection from nasal washing. At least one used sterile water but washed the bottle in tap water.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10977821/
The contents of a baby's bottle go into its stomach. That is quite a different environment from the nose and nasal sinuses from where amoeba infection can occasionally get into the brain.
Jonathan Edwards
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
To be fair the paper says that one cannot conclude that nasal washing was the cause and even if it was, we do know that the amoebae came from tap water. They may have been in the nose. Also these were immunocompromised individuals.
On the other hand the idea of rinsing any sinuses at home seems to me barmy. Any nasty germs in the nose are likely to get pushed into places you do not want them, whatever fluid is used. I don't thin sterile water would necessarily be much better.
shak8
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Very important report for immuno-compromised people doing nasal irrigations.
This is probably more information than is necessary, but here goes:
I have chronic non-allergic rhinitis for many years and here is what I do and why:
For nasal irrigation, I boil tap water for 5 minutes and pour into glass jars (I use a teaspoon of pickling salt which has no additives, and a pinch of baking soda, per quart jar) and then refrigerate and use within 3 days
I use a Neil-Med brand nasal irrigation plastic container and irrigate my nose with two bottlefuls twice a day. If I have a cold or increased sinus congestion (windy days of pollen and other particle irritants/reactants) I douche third time, which is helpful.
I also use a nasal steroid twice a day (Rx). If my ears feel clogged or have sinus pain, I'll spray a nasal decongestant (non-prescription) though not to be used more than 3 days in a row (rebound congestion).
With all this, I've begun using a nasal membrane lubricant (again Neil-Med) to moisten the lining of my main nose innards. And remembering not to pick my nose, because I'll easily get a nose bleed.
I am careful to clean the plastic bottle I use with hot soapy water or 70% alcohol daily and dry it until the next use and once a week use a 10% bleach solution for a 10 min. soak. That said, the jars I use could also be bleached upon occasion. Hope this is enough.
I do understand what you say.
That would depend on the technique employed to get the saline into the sinuses.
Its probably not possible for people who can't control their tongue and upper respiratory tract. I suppose it could be called an advanced technique; for me its routine.
Last edited:
Ash
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I've heard of a-lot of people having this after COVID but like you say that's unlikely in you case.
Could be an unusual manifestation of hay fever perhaps if there's lots of trees and grasses etc nearby.
Don't know all the possible causes, but dust mite allergy seems a reasonable possibility. Common and you're stuck inside too sick to vacuum.
Ash
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I
Umm...don't know how quickly it would improve after a single session of vacuuming and know vacuuming disturbs dust and produces fine particles into the air as well as removing dust. So it takes all windows open and a bit of time for the pay off.
Perhaps read up on dust allergy to see how well it does or doesn't fit your symptoms.
Do you have house plants could be spores?
Or pets?
Evergreen
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Nasal irrigation using NeilMed Sinus Rinse was recommended to me by a GP and then multiple ENTs. I was leery at first, but figured if it was recommended after surgery it would probably be safe for my mere allergies and low-grade sinus issues. I tried it and found it helpful so I continued for years.
You do it as @shak8 describes, with boiled and cooled tap water, warmed again and with a sachet of stuff dissolved in it. You can also use distilled water. You're supposed to wash it in boiled and cooled or distilled water too and disinfect it every once in a while in the microwave. I found the cleaning challenging. I used to wash it in ordinary hot water with dish soap and then rinse in boiled and cooled water. That was the best I could do. I should have disinfected it, but I did not. I did replace the bottles as recommended.
When I was physically able to do it, I found it very helpful for allergies and colds. It prevented sinus infections for me which was a wonderful development.
It does not help me with nasal vestibulitis or whatever it is I get now, and it does not feel like a good idea to me to use it for that.
It's a lot of work and neither I nor my carers are able to do it now.
I had to stop using NeilMed NasoGel (recommended by ENT for nasal dryness) recently because it stank and it turns out a bunch of batches were recalled because of "microbial contamination", yikes. I'm using a Sterimar Nasal Spray instead (bought in bulk from Spain!) Ideally I need something thicker, but I do really like it. Tried a few before settling on this one.
shak8
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Thanks for the info, and especially about the microbial contamination incidence in the nasal gel.
Evergreen
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
No problem. The moral is, if it stinks, don't use it! Don't assume it's just you being sensitive to odour like I did.
Last edited:
JellyBabyKid
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I use sterimar congestion, which is very effective as a decongestant, but it does nothing for the persistently runny nose/chronic rhinitis and the saline and constant blowing tends to dry my nasal passages, so it's a balance, and a nuisance. Vaseline is supposed to help with that, smeared on the inside of the nostrils, but I'm quite fond of breathing and forgetful, so don't tend to do it often.
It is a frustrating conundrum.
Evergreen
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
It really is!
I used to find the sinus rinse very drying.
I'm currently "balanced" - the running has stopped, the regular Sterimar has stopped the bleeding insde my nose and the internal itching is under control. The external itching is trickier but I found that if I put my eye cream on my nose twice a day it's bearable.
I don't use Vaseline inside nose because of the risk of lipoid pneumonia with long-term use. But I do sometimes put a little oil-free water-based moisturiser just inside.
Really need an alternative to NasoGel, or for them to get their act together and fix the problem.