Sleep test - Brain wave patterns

D

Dial It In

Established Member (Voting Rights)
I have had sleep tests in the past where I was MISdiagnosed with obstructive sleep apnea (yes you read correctly - a medical industry scam).

I would like to do another sleep test, but this time get deeper analysis of my brain wave patterns. I think I could use it to help researchers, apart from getting greater insights into my brain function.

Has anyone specifically undertaken this?
What were the results?
 
Sleep apnea is not a scam if you actually have it. That said outside a research setting i don't know of any deeper level analysis available nor is it likely to lead to anything groundbreaking for ME/CFS patients. That said i'm on the other side of the planet so maybe you have places that will do more analysis though i doubt it will be of benefit unless you have a different condition (which you might, you could have anything from epilepsy to brain tumours, who knows).
 
How did you conclude sleep apnoea was a misdiagnosis?

My daughter has a diagnosis of sleep apnoea but she is annoyed that for the test they insisted that she sleep on her back, which she never does naturally. A far more useful test would have been to check for sleep apnoea in her preferred sleeping positions.
 
In this country there are neurologist who do studies of brain wave patterns in sleep (sleep architecture). Most sleep studies are done by pulmonologist who are looking for people to sell CPAPs to.

I had two. Even though they both determined that I did not have sleep apnea, the second one put me on their mailing list for mailings about CPAPs. This suggests that they just assumed everyone who came in was going to get one. I did not sleep enough in either one that there was any way they could convince me that I had sleep apnea. I don't know what would have happened if I had.
 
sea said:
How did you conclude sleep apnoea was a misdiagnosis?

My daughter has a diagnosis of sleep apnoea but she is annoyed that for the test they insisted that she sleep on her back, which she never does naturally. A far more useful test would have been to check for sleep apnoea in her preferred sleeping positions.
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A second sleep specialist looked at my test results & said I should have never been diagnosed with it - she said it was what you would expect from a large percentage of the normal population.
She even went further & said that the specific specialist, who she knew very well, tends to blame fatigue on sleep apnea.

It is true that gravity affects (obstructive, not central) sleep apnea - you will have less blockages sleeping on your side or stomach, so you have a point about the test.
 
Little Bluestem said:
In this country there are neurologist who do studies of brain wave patterns in sleep (sleep architecture). Most sleep studies are done by pulmonologist who are looking for people to sell CPAPs to.

I had two. Even though they both determined that I did not have sleep apnea, the second one put me on their mailing list for mailings about CPAPs. This suggests that they just assumed everyone who came in was going to get one. I did not sleep enough in either one that there was any way they could convince me that I had sleep apnea. I don't know what would have happened if I had.
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Thank you - it supports my argument of a medical industry scam
 
A sleep study like the one I had happens in a sleep lab, you are wired from all over and they measure your oxygen saturation, respiratory rate, heart rate, and brain waves. They can also tell what position you sleep in, and even if someone says they never sleep on their back, everybody move in their sleep and chances are you spend time on your back too, you are just not aware. They would be able to detect the amount of time you snore at night, and whether you stop breathing and for how long.
The test would be able to detect abnormal movements and seizures if there are any. In general doctors pay little attention to whether you have deep sleep or not because, what are they to do? They don’t know what to do for that. In the case of sleep apnea, they know what to do. It may not be convenient to you, you know, wearing a machine at night, but it is what is needed to maintain oxygenation. Sorry.

There are criterias to diagnose a person with sleep apnea (and a different one for the pediatric population). Here is a paper that may be of use to you
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2699173/
 
@Dial It In - I was sent for a $7,000 sleep study. Afterwards, the sleep tech specialist who has been doing this for 20+ years and was up all night monitoring mentioned to me that I had abnormalities he'd never seen. He said that he needed to look it up in the "Sleep Atlas" and found the anomalies in there. I asked him to clarify and he said, "the neurologist will discuss it with you." By the time I saw the neurologist I was told nothing more than, "You have mild hypersomnia, don't drive when you're tired." I was provided a useless two-page report. Later, I requested my sleep study data on CD-ROM...I would still like to find someone who can properly review the data.
 
Dial It In said:
It is a scam if you are diagnosed with it when you don't have it
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Its a misdiagnosis, it certainly exists, but if the doc gives you the wrong diagnosis it doesn't make the disease fake, it just means you were misdiagnosed.

Dial It In said:
Thank you - it supports my argument of a medical industry scam
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This also does not prove sleep apnea is a scam, many people do have it, not that i like targeted advertising.

I'm willing to bet many people were diagnosed with different conditions before they got to ME/CFS, most of the doctors i met know nothing about it and could not have diagnosed me with it even if they had heard of it, they were not malicious or out to scam or even harm me, they just have insufficient knowledge. I hope this blind spot is remedied and we have a treatment available as soon as possible
 
Milo said:
They can also tell what position you sleep in, and even if someone says they never sleep on their back, everybody move in their sleep and chances are you spend time on your back too, you are just not aware.
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My daughter's sleep test was also in a lab, watched over by a sleep technician. They woke her up every time she changed position to her side or front and insisted she stay on her back. Yes she may spend some portion of the night of her back that she is not aware of, but she needed to know whether sleep apnoea was an issue in all positions and particularly the position she spends the majority of the time sleeping in.

I had a sleep test where I was wired up with sensors and monitor and sent home to sleep. The sensors could tell what position I was in and I spent around 10 minutes of the total night on my back. Even if I had sleep apnoea in that position it wouldn't be effecting sleep quality with such a small amount of time.
 
sea said:
My daughter's sleep test was also in a lab, watched over by a sleep technician. They woke her up every time she changed position to her side or front and insisted she stay on her back. Yes she may spend some portion of the night of her back that she is not aware of, but she needed to know whether sleep apnoea was an issue in all positions and particularly the position she spends the majority of the time sleeping in.

I had a sleep test where I was wired up with sensors and monitor and sent home to sleep. The sensors could tell what position I was in and I spent around 10 minutes of the total night on my back. Even if I had sleep apnoea in that position it wouldn't be effecting sleep quality with such a small amount of time.
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Then this was not a sleep study, it was sleep torture :banghead:
 
sea said:
I had a sleep test where I was wired up with sensors and monitor and sent home to sleep. The sensors could tell what position I was in and I spent around 10 minutes of the total night on my back. Even if I had sleep apnoea in that position it wouldn't be effecting sleep quality with such a small amount of time.
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I went for a sleep study at the hospital years ago. I was all wired up and told to 'try' and sleep when my reason for being there was because I had the inability to fall asleep (without meds). I was not permitted to take my meds so stayed up reading until the tech came in and said, "please try to sleep now". I told her I can't, so she went to speak to the doctor and told me I could take my meds.

Of course I feel asleep after taking the meds and then I was booted out at 5 a.m when it was still dark out and couldn't locate a cab to get home. They never sent the results to my doctor.
 
I've had a couple of sleep studies in a lab, and I've never been instructed to sleep on my back. I was told to sleep in my usual, most comfortable position, so I slept on my side.

Why must these studies be so effing uncomfortable? Can't they just pass you through a pod? I was so uncomfortable during my last study that I got zero sleep, so the study was useless.

The lab was very nice. The thing that keeps me awake is having all those electrodes attached and the feeling of being tethered. I have to toss and turn a bit before falling asleep, and having to be so careful about any movement really bothered me and probably kept my nervous system on high alert. Also, when the tech took off the electrodes, I discovered my sensitive skin had reacted to the electrode gel, and I was one big rash.

All those complaints aside, I did find earlier studies useful. For example, one study showed that my REM sleep occurred at an unfortunate stage of the sleep cycle. My sleep doctor told me that can happen with Wellbutrin. I tapered off it, and my sleep improved.
 
Alvin said:
Its a misdiagnosis, it certainly exists, but if the doc gives you the wrong diagnosis it doesn't make the disease fake, it just means you were misdiagnosed.


This also does not prove sleep apnea is a scam, many people do have it, not that i like targeted advertising.

I'm willing to bet many people were diagnosed with different conditions before they got to ME/CFS, most of the doctors i met know nothing about it and could not have diagnosed me with it even if they had heard of it, they were not malicious or out to scam or even harm me, they just have insufficient knowledge. I hope this blind spot is remedied and we have a treatment available as soon as possible
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I am not saying sleep apnea is a scam, I am saying the industry is a scam.
People, like me, are being misdiagnosed to generate income.
You cannot mistakenly misdiagnose obstructive sleep apnea. All you have to do is read a simple, simple graph.
 
Dial It In said:
I am not saying sleep apnea is a scam, I am saying the industry is a scam.
People, like me, are being misdiagnosed to generate income.
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If you really believe that then there is no point me arguing, your not going to accept anything i say so good luck with that.
 
@Alvin, I don't think @Dial It In is claiming the whole sleep apnea industry is a scam. I thought the point being made was that it was his experience that the test he had was a scam done by a commercial company perhaps in order to sell equipment. That is entirely possible at the same time as there being very good testing done by reputable organisations.
 
Trish said:
@Alvin, I don't think @Dial It In is claiming the whole sleep apnea industry is a scam. I thought the point being made was that it was his experience that the test he had was a scam done by a commercial company perhaps in order to sell equipment. That is entirely possible at the same time as there being very good testing done by reputable organisations.
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Fair enough, i have also seen bad doctors and been given wrong diagnoses and bad medical advice, i'm sure we all wish it could never happen.
 
I think @Dial It In is right. Sleep medicine is a trendy area that lots of chest physicians have gone into because there is nobody with chronic bronchitis any more. Even in an university hospital setting it is a scam for attracting custom. No doubt some people suffer from sleep apnoea but my impression from the last few years I was in clinic was that it is significantly overdiagnosed.
 
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