Rod Liddle in the Times: "Always fatigued — yet they never tire of claiming their malady really is a virus"

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic news - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Three Chord Monty, Mar 17, 2019.

  1. Three Chord Monty

    Three Chord Monty Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    I'd put this in a different section, like Advocacy Alerts, or something, but outside of 'ignore this' I'm not sure what action the alert would entail. A lot of people probably should avoid this, as this guy is, along with Edward Shorter, arguably the most abrasive pundit who's ever written a word about ME. I'm paywalled on the Times, so I can't read it, myself, but something tells me that this is revealing to people who would never have noticed before, and are generally on our side, at this point, what we've always had to deal with. But to an extent that has the potential to top the 2011 'death threats' saga. And the more they push, the more, I have a feeling, the people who have seen enough to generally be on our side, are going to be willing to push back.
    Inara, Dolphin, rvallee and 6 others like this.
  2. SallyC

    SallyC Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    I think reacting to Rod Liddle is utterly pointless. He is a racist, misogynist provocateur and the people who read his garbage are not going to want to hear the other side of the argument.

    Although he has written a slightly new angle on this, apparently we have the power to sway WHO and NIH. If only!
    Barry, TigerLilea, shak8 and 14 others like this.
  3. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Don't give him traffic.
  4. Stewart

    Stewart Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Sadly The Times website is telling me that I've reached my free article limit, and I'll have to pay £1 if I want to read this. I can think of many, many better things to do with a pound.
    TiredSam, MeSci, DokaGirl and 14 others like this.
  5. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

    Roy Liddle does not deserve that we spend one second of our time to read his heinous writings. This guy is a bully and an abuser. That he is still offered a tribune in the media is a shame (I do not think it is particuliar to the UK, we've got exactly the same problem in France).
    Barry, Hutan, shak8 and 10 others like this.
  6. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Rod Liddle is a racist, bigoted bully. To be written of by him kinda shows we're in the right, to be honest. Anything Liddle is against, I'm probably for.
    Barry, Hutan, Anna and 16 others like this.
  7. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Liddle is a very sad character. We should have the common human decency of sympathising with him in his plight. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that he modelled his career on Private Eye's Phil Space, and never realised that it was a spoof.
    hinterland, Barry, DokaGirl and 11 others like this.
  8. Estherbot

    Estherbot Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    I'm sure not even Michael Sharpe wants the support of Rod Liddle.
    hinterland, Barry, DokaGirl and 10 others like this.
  9. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    On Page 15 of the print edition.

    In the early 70s, I freelanced for a few months at the Sunday Times when Harold Evans was editor. It sickens me how the current editor continues to give Liddle (who has no background in clinical practice, medical research, or in science or medical journalism) a platform.

    He opens his rant with:

    "Do you remember Morgellons
    disease? It was all the rage a
    few years ago..."

    "...The ME lobby insist their illness is
    "real", that is, occasioned by a virus,
    rather than being a psychiatric
    condition. Wessely finds it astonishing
    that they would rather be the victims of a
    thoroughly nasty virus than a mental
    condition that might be gently assuaged
    by therapy. The US spent a lot of money
    investigating a link between ME and two
    unpleasant retroviruses, XMRV
    (xenotropic murine leukaemia virus)
    and pMLV (polytropic MLV); the
    conclusion was that there was no link
    and, further, that the notion that ME
    is caused by any virus should be written off
    "once and for all".
    Such is the success of the provisional​
    wing of the ME lobby that the evidence is
    ignored by the World Health
    Organisation and our own National
    Institute for Health and Care Excellence.
    Let them have their medical illness if
    they want, seems to be the response.
    Increasingly we live in a post-truth​
    world where those who clamour loudest
    are indulged - even if this mitigates
    against finding some sort of relief for
    for what is unquestionably a serious and
    miserable disorder, and even if their
    complaints about a virus have no basis
    in fact. It is similar, in a way, to the
    demands of the transgender lobby..."

    Sad individual. Don't give him traffic.
    The Sun censured by Ipso for Rod Liddle's discriminatory column
    Rod Liddle censured by the PCC

    The Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO) is the independent regulator for the newspaper and magazine industry in the UK. We hold newspapers and magazines to account for their actions, protect individual rights, uphold high standards of journalism and help to maintain freedom of expression for the press.

    Editors' Code of Practice

    12. Discrimination

    i) The press must avoid prejudicial or pejorative reference to an individual's, race, colour, religion, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation or to any physical or mental illness or disability.
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
    Barry, Snow Leopard, Roy S and 7 others like this.
  10. Skycloud

    Skycloud Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    I've read it. It's contentious and offensive because that's exactly what he's paid for.

    The ME section is followed by his thoughts on Brexit and concludes with a short section on millenial snowflake 'awful people' who don't know how to work.

    This is the phrase that pulls all the themes together I think:
    Don't we just, and Liddle's doing his best to keep it that way.

    The ME section is the longest part of the piece so I can't copy it to here under fair use and I don't really want to quote him piecemeal.

    I know some people think it's useful to archive things like this so perhaps someone will archive it and post a link for those who want to read it but don't want to give it traction.

    I don't know if complaining is worth the energy or not. Perhaps one of the charities could take that on. There are already a lot of comments (not all ME related) online; Rod Liddle has his following. A few people have posted supportively, but I haven't seen a comment that challenges the assumptions about Sharpe's work with facts.
    Woolie, Barry, rvallee and 6 others like this.
  11. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch Senior Member (Voting Rights)

  12. Estherbot

    Estherbot Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Barry, rvallee, DokaGirl and 6 others like this.
  13. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    The charities should send a joint response to the Editor.
    Cinders66, Inara, hinterland and 9 others like this.
  14. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    It appears from that transcript that this article is merely a hasty reworking of Liddle's earlier diatribe-was it in 2015?. I don't intend to waste time looking.

    What seems to be of interest is not the content of the article but the reasons for the Sunday Times commissioning it. They knew exactly what they were going to get.
    Amw66, rvallee, DokaGirl and 6 others like this.
  15. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    The Sunday Times have a pattern. They've published numerous inaccurate things about trans people recently too (which they manage to shoehorn into this article).

    They don't believe in live and let live; it's always judge and be smug instead, even if it means lying.
    hinterland, Chezboo, chrisb and 5 others like this.
  16. Robert 1973

    Robert 1973 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Moderator note: Most of the Liddle piece had to be edited out as the forum cannot breach the copyright.
    [Edit: Apologies to moderators. If anyone wants a copy of the full article send me a pm]

    Liddle is so widely despised I wonder if having his guns pointed at us may actually be a positive. Here is his predictably vile diatribe in full:
    I’m wondering if it would be worth complaining to the IPSO. My guess is that Liddle’s columns are routinely screened by the Sunday Times lawyers and that they are therefore confident that any complaints would not be upheld.

    The IPSO Editors’ code of practice states:
    Any thoughts @JohnTheJack @adambeyoncelowe @Sarah @Nathalie Wright?
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
    MSEsperanza, Barry, Hutan and 8 others like this.
  17. Suffolkres

    Suffolkres Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Rod Liddle And the same old diatribe, same old rehash .....of sensational disrespectful contemptuous journalism- but hey, he gets paid for it ?????????? LOads of money, ££££££££


    "Do you ever wake up worried that you have tiny fibres growing beneath your skin, all along your spinal column? Possibly wriggling little fibres, placed there by the government or by aliens? By aliens I don’t mean asylum seekers but proper aliens, quite probably creatures with bifurcated tongues and scaly lips from the Planet Zog. If so, you may well consider yourself to be suffering from ‘Morgellons’.............

    Always fatigued — yet they never tire of claiming their malady really is a virus
    March 17 2019, 12:01am,
    Rod Liddle

    Do you remember Morgellons disease? It was all the rage a few years ago, popular with people like me who take the Bizarre Diseases Quarterly magazine and log into websites called stuff like “How the Zionist Occupation Government Is Trying to Kill You”.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2019
    Barry, rvallee, DokaGirl and 3 others like this.
  18. Estherbot

    Estherbot Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    *Newspapers will print something controversial to generate a reaction which they'll print and things go on from there for several days.

    *The Times (if not the Sunday Times) hasTom Whipple who has written good balanced piecespieces in ME. He can be encouraged to do so again.

    *I'm sure Messrs Wessely & Sharpe are embarrassed by the endorsement by Liddle.
  19. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Absolutely. The Sunday Times is worse than The Times proper in this sense.
  20. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    London, UK
    Seems a fairly straightforward breach of the code and maybe the law.
    MSEsperanza, Barry, Hutan and 6 others like this.

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