Rock1 protein

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neophyte32

Established Member
Hello, I'm not a scientist, but I've been suffering from severe MECFS for 3 years. I know that Amatica Health has been criticized a bit here (formulation, lack of scientific rigor according to some, control population, etc.), but I wanted to see the protein marker levels with them. Okay, the control population is too small to have real scientific evidence, but I was surprised to find a 0 for the Rock1 protein (Rock2 was present, but at a rather low percentile). In more than a third of the 60 people tested, Rock1 values of 0 or close to 0 were found. What does this mean to you? I'm a novice, and isn't it definitive to have Rock1 at 0? Thank you for your opinions. Yours faithfully,
 
Google AI says:
There is no universally accepted "normal" or "reference" range for serum ROCK1 levels in the same way there is for cholesterol or blood glucose.

It looks as if it all depends on your assay and technical issues.
That being the case a value of zero might not mean much.
 
Jonathan Edwards said:
Google AI says:
There is no universally accepted "normal" or "reference" range for serum ROCK1 levels in the same way there is for cholesterol or blood glucose.

It looks as if it all depends on your assay and technical issues.
That being the case a value of zero might not mean much.
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Thank you for your reply. There were approximately 25 healthy controls (average of 1,000) and 60 with LC and MECFS (average of 500). Among the 60, at least 15 to 20 were between 0 and 200. I've read on various AIs that having low Rock1 in the blood can be very problematic. Mitochondrial fission, smooth muscle contraction, autophagy... My Rock2 levels are roughly within the normal range, lower but not as much as Rock1. This puzzles me because I do have severe MECFS, bedridden, with mitochondrial problems. I also read that there's no way to increase Rock1 production, only improve its distribution.
 
Some background:

The Amatica website says this about the rock proteins. The proteins are part of their '31 marker protein analysis' test.
Vascular and viral regulation
ROCK1 (rho-associated, coiled-coil-containing protein kinase 1): ROCK1 is a key regulator of vascular tone, cellular contraction, and endothelial function through its effects on actin cytoskeleton organization and smooth muscle contraction.

ROCK2 (rho-associated, coiled-coil-containing protein kinase 2):ROCK2, like ROCK1, regulates vascular function and cellular mechanics, but is expressed predominantly in brain and heart tissue where it influences blood flow and cellular contractility.
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Read the paper: Vascular mechanisms of post-COVID-19 conditions: Rho-kinase is a novel target for therapy
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Here's the forum link for the paper that Amatica link to on their webpage as evidence for their claims about Rock1:
Vascular mechanisms of post-Covid-19 conditions: rho-kinase is a novel target for therapy
 
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Amatica was convinced before the results that Rock1 would be higher in MECFS patients than the (small) control group, but not quite the opposite, it is rather low. It s preliminary results.
 

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I've had a look at that paper that Amatica link to on their web page apparently to support the use of the Rock1 and Rock2 "biomarkers". While that study - this one:
Hutan said:
Here's the forum link for the paper that Amatica link to on their webpage as evidence for their claims about Rock1:
Vascular mechanisms of post-Covid-19 conditions: rho-kinase is a novel target for therapy
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is a bit interesting, it is small and of questionable relevance to ME/CFS. Crucially, they don't measure Rock1 and Rock2 levels!

The paper is not evidence for the concentration of Rock proteins being different in any groups. Rather, what the study found in a sample with only 10 poorly matched controls was that applying a substance that reportedly inactivated Rock proteins (fasudil) made blood vessels from severe post-Covid-19 patients (who may or may not have had lingering symptoms at the time of biopsy), constrict or relax in response to chemicals in ways that were more like blood vessels from the controls.
 
Jonathan Edwards said:
Maybe its presence in serum is a function of a certain level of activity - like creatine kinase?
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I don't know, but I don't think so. They'll soon go into detail about all this and explain whether it correlates with the severity of the disease. But a friend of mine who is more serious than me also participated in this sample, and he was higher up, even though he was practically immobile. I was taking 1,000 steps a day. Anyway, I'll keep you posted if you're interested. But I admit I'm a little worried about myself with this 0 rock1, as if my body had shut down to protect itself...
 
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what are they actually measuring here? ROCK1 concentration in the blood plasma?

Also how many vials did you donate for this, I’m interested if this is a theranos situation lol I’ve worked in blood typing/blood tests automation I cannot imagine you can pack that many tests into one vial
 
neophyte32 said:
But I admit I'm a little worried about myself with this 0 rock1, as if my body had shut down to protect itself...
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Neophyte, the Amatica story is not really hanging together with the evidence they are putting forward. The study they link to suggests that inactivating Rock proteins makes blood vessels operate more normally.

There is an enormous overlap in that chart you posted upthread.

Also, if you search on Rock1, there are suggestions that low levels are fine, even good e.g. this one in Chronic Kidney Disease
Protein kinase ROCK1 activates mitochondrial fission linking to oxidative stress and muscle atrophy
Through these approaches, Rho-associated kinase ROCK1 emerged as a key molecule responsible for the observed mitochondrial fission and oxidative stress.

Conclusions: Our findings demonstrate that ROCK1 participates in CKD-induced muscle wasting by promoting mitochondrial fission and oxidative stress. Pharmacological suppression of ROCK1 could be a therapeutic strategy for combating muscle wasting in CKD conditions.
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As far as I can see, not enough is known with enough certainty for conclusions to be drawn about Rock1 in ME/CFS.
 
ChronicallyOverIt said:
what are they actually measuring here? ROCK1 concentration in the blood plasma?

Also how many vials did you donate for this, I’m interested if this is a theranos situation lol I’ve worked in blood typing/blood tests automation I cannot imagine you can pack that many tests into one vial
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I don't want to start a controversy or criticize Amatica. They're good guys, and I just wanted your scientific opinions on the Rock1 issue. I don't want to bother you... There were 15 vials in total.
 
Hutan said:
Néophyte, l'histoire d'Amatica ne concorde pas vraiment avec les preuves avancées. L'étude à laquelle ils font référence suggère que l'inactivation des protéines Rock améliore le fonctionnement des vaisseaux sanguins. Je ne vois donc pas en quoi un faible taux de protéines pourrait poser problème.

Il y a un énorme chevauchement dans le tableau que vous avez publié plus haut.

De plus, si vous effectuez une recherche sur Rock1, il est suggéré que de faibles niveaux sont acceptables, voire bons, par exemple celui-ci dans la maladie rénale chronique.
La protéine kinase ROCK1 active la fission mitochondriale liée au stress oxydatif et à l'atrophie musculaire


Autant que je sache, on ne sait pas assez de choses avec suffisamment de certitude pour tirer des conclusions sur Rock1 dans le ME/CFS.
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Thanks.I'm definitely not saying that Amatica is drawing conclusions from anything, mind you. They haven't made any claims; they're currently collecting proteins and RNA. I don't want to make them look like clowns. They're serious and aren't making any claims, for the moment. They're currently looking to create their own subgroups. Thanks for your reply.
 
ChronicallyOverIt said:
Graph feels misleading
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I agree. We've seen a number of instances of that sort of chart lately, where an inadequate sample number is sort of camouflaged by the data points being spread out horizontally. Does anyone know, does that happen automatically in some widely used chart-making software, or do you have to select some options to consciously produce a chart like that?

If the data was dealt with similarly for the two groups, the black control dots would appear pretty much as a solid line from 0 to 1750, making the data for the two samples look a lot more similar.
 
neophyte32 said:
I don't want to start a controversy or criticize Amatica. They're good guys, and I just wanted your scientific opinions on the Rock1 issue. I don't want to bother you...
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I don’t think the average member here is bothered by scrutinising claims made by anyone about ME/CFS.

And good intentions don’t always end with good outcomes. I think it can be questioned how good they are if they ask people to spend loads of money on tests when we don’t have any clue about what the results mean!
 
Sorry, I didn't want to give Amatica bad publicity (great guys, also seriously ill with MECFS). I selfishly wanted to know more about Rock1 and a blood level of 0. Understand what could be at stake. ChatGPT really scared me... Afterwards, I have severe MECFS and am bedridden, so I imagine there are things that are wrong. Thanks anyway for your feedback.
 
neophyte32 said:
Sorry, I didn't want to give Amatica bad publicity (great guys, also seriously ill with MECFS).
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If there is any bad publicity for Amatica in this thread, it’s entirely their own doing. Don’t worry about that.
neophyte32 said:
ChatGPT really scared me...
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That’s unfortunately quite common.

It’s very understandable that you’re looking for answers, but going off the responses from others I’m not sure there’s much to be learned from the tests. Even if there was, the forum rules prohibits giving (or requesting) any diagnoses or treatment recommendations.
 
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