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Rituximab 'causes impaired immune function, Griffith study says'

Discussion in 'BioMedical ME/CFS News' started by Russell Fleming, Mar 27, 2018.

  1. Russell Fleming

    Russell Fleming Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    MeSci, Inara, Jan and 10 others like this.
  2. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

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    Nope, definitely not a hyped result at all, Griffiths University wouldn't do that.... :laugh:
     
    Inara, Marky, JaimeS and 13 others like this.
  3. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is going to be ugly
     
    Pibee, Inara, Webdog and 7 others like this.
  4. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Wish they wouldn't do these media releases until the publication is actually available.
     
    Inara, JaimeS, Webdog and 7 others like this.
  5. Aimossy

    Aimossy Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    This sort of work and statements in the article drive me up the bend.
     
    Inara, Marky, Melanie and 7 others like this.
  6. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Isn't it suppose to "impair" the immune system? I understood this was it's method of action, to take out one type of immune cell which was suspected of being faulty and force them to be replaced with new ones, which would presumably not be defective.

    I'm struggling to see the point of this report, even assuming..........
     
  7. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It is not clear whether they looked at NK cells from patients treated with rituximab, in which case one wonders who did the trial, or NK cells in culture, which almost certainly tells us nothing.

    I am afraid that if there was any doubt about the fact that this group do not have a clue, there is none now. What on earth do they think they are up to? Who cares what rituximab does to NK cells now? Of what possible relevance could it have to anything?
     
  8. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It would most certainly have to be the latter. They recruited in the past for studies involving in vitro drug testing but as far as I'm aware haven't recruited for an actual in vivo trial of any kind.
     
  9. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Given that Ritximab has been shown not to be effective in a large double blind trial, I'm not sure what their point is. Though, as I understand it, Ritximab wipes out B cells, not NK cells, which seem to be the target of their research.

    This team seems to have a very effective PR machine and to get lots of funding, and make claims of finding cause and biomarker. But have they actually published anything useful?
     
  10. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I googled very briefly after seeing this media release and noticed this different publication about NK cells and Rituximab below.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5024429/
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  11. Aimossy

    Aimossy Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    I dont see the point of this study except to try and undermine ritux and the possible subset it may help - findings are still to be had. Are they boosting their own theories?

    It wouldnt be surprising if ritux did affect NK cells? But that doesn't mean much even if correct and last I heard the NK cell findings were not able to be replicated anyway? I think I saw this at IiME and that NK cells are too difficult as a marker. You hear of some having decreased function and some having increased function. Which also does not mean causation.

    Calcium channel blockers Griffiths are keen to try, you hear some go well on these and some don't but I haven't heard of them curing people anecdotally.

    Excuse my ranting but I have watched them make many assertions with no proof or replications from elsewhere or researchers seemingly keen to replicate their findings. I also thought that Marshall-Gradsnik background was in sports medicine and muscle function? I could have that wrong.

    They certainly are very good at PR and gaining funding.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  12. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

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    Melanie and adambeyoncelowe like this.
  13. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Andy I just edited to clarify.
     
  14. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think I have seen this paper before and cannot work out what it is trying to tell us. The effect of rituximab on NK cells has nothing to do with the fact that NK cells mediate B cell killing as far as I can see. Since rituximab is a human antibody there is no obvious reason why it should do anything special to NK cells, which do not express CD20. The problem is that all you need is for there to be a low level of contamination of the NK sample with B cells or CD20+ T cells and you would see odd things happening.
     
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  15. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think probably yes. The only caveat is that there was a physician in Queensland who was using rituximab in ME but I don't think he was working with Griffith.
     
  16. Aimossy

    Aimossy Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    I find it difficult to swallow that this team seem to have received the most funding in Aus. If I have that wrong someone please say otherwise.
     
  17. Simone

    Simone Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, they are the most well-funded team in the country, to the tune of several million dollars.
     
  18. Aimossy

    Aimossy Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    :confused: :cry:
     
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  19. Melanie

    Melanie Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thank you! I know nothing about hard research except for what is explained to me here and other ME organizations but I knew these "researchers" have been on to nothing from the get-go. And one of the most important clues to is the silence of the researchers here in the US about their "marker" research.

    And just to clarify, Rituximab will not help anyone with ME. There is no SUBSET that can be helped. They don't have ME and were misdiagnosed.

    Everything they are doing at Griffiths, their marker research going on for years is a sham and their disqualifying Rituximab as an ME drug the way they have is a joke. It is an invalid drug for us because it does not work on true ME or CFS or SEID. There IS NO SUBSET, just patients misdiagnosed with ME or CFS or SEID. That's what a criteria without a true marker will get you, people that are misdiagnosed. Maybe they had CANCER!
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
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  20. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Don Staines (Griffith University) will be presenting again in London at Invest In ME, June 1 2018.
     
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