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Psychological Stress and Mitochondria: A Systematic Review Picard, Martin PhD; McEwen, Bruce S. PhD

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS Research' started by Keela Too, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. Keela Too

    Keela Too Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Mitochondria are apparently now part of the psychosomatic construct!

    https://journals.lww.com/psychosoma...chological_Stress_and_Mitochondria___A.3.aspx

    Thanks to Amanda on Facebook for finding this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  2. oldtimer

    oldtimer Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    PMS - another acronym to add to the growing list to struggle with:rolleyes:. PsychoMitoSomo - in a sing-song style. Yes, that's how I'll remember it :whistle:

    I can't claim to have read the whole thing, or understood some of what I did read, but the paragraphs describing the inherent limitations of the animal studies which they say need to be addressed in the future were interesting.

    "The studies using prolonged stressors (e.g., restraint for >8 hours) do not always specify whether such duration prevented normal feeding/drinking, which could either counteract or further exaggerate some effects of stress on mitochondrial functions. e) Restraint stress paradigms commonly used could be construed as a “physical” stressor, and consequently, the mitochondrial changes reported may reflect physical rather than psychological stress."

    ETA. This sounds like useless cruelty to me :mad:
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
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  3. Allele

    Allele Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Do they even hear themselves? :emoji_speaking_head:
     
  4. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Excellent, a meta analysis, the perfect way to squeeze the truth from data :bored:
    It may be correct but its probably more accurate to say prolonged stress hormones and chemicals cause negative externalities in the body (as if thats a revelation).
     
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  5. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I can already see how studies where animals are restrained will be used to "explain" mitochondrial abnormalities in humans.

    I'm also not sure about categorizing chronic restraint as psychological stress.
     
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  6. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That is what it is.

    I cannot se what it can have to do with human illness.
     
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  7. Valentijn

    Valentijn Not a moderator

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    They literally are proposing that psychological stress may mutate the mitochondrial DNA:
    No humans involved in these studies, which also makes their relevance far less likely:
    Changes in DNA were not outcomes in any studies:
    Most of the stressors included a substantial physical factor:
    How the mitochondria were assessed:
    Table 1 lists the results of various studies, and it's pretty suggestive of false positive results - sometimes there's increased respiration in response to stress, sometimes it's decreased. Sometimes mitochondrial size increases, sometimes it decreases, and sometimes it stays the same. Sometimes respiratory chain activity increases, sometimes it decreases. Sometimes the results on the some measurement in the same study are only different based on subgrouping, which is usually the result of post-hoc cherry picking.

    Table 2 lists associations between various mitochondrial-related measurements and mood disorders or history of abuse, in 6 studies involving humans. Results are a bit mixed again, and the more obvious explanation is that mitochondrial dysfunction causes the symptoms of mood disorders in those patients, combined with retrospective recall bias regarding childhood trauma (who also had increased inflammation). I find it amusing that they have flipped the usual cause and effect (genes cause disease) to call that "reverse causation" in ceding it might be a possibility:
    They refer to autism as a "psychopathology," which seems a good indication that they have been living in a cave and will continue to do so until it collapses on them:
    My overall impression is that not only can we use the powers of our minds to grow hand-claws, we can also alter our genomes through sheer force of will and pass on those hand-claws to the next generation :emoji_crab::emoji_crab::emoji_crab: I'd be shocked that this study ever got published, but it's a psychosomatic journal and scientific standards are likely completely irrelevant :rolleyes:
     
  8. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Animal studies are almost always useless if studying humans. They are also cruel. They usually involve killing the animals afterwards.
     
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  9. guest001

    guest001 Guest

    I wonder if David Marks would be interested in this?

    And I appreciate not everyone would have the same visceral reaction depending on their sensibilities... but the 'restraint' stressors on animals sounded horrific. ("The stressors most frequently used was chronic restraint stress (e.g., 21 consecutive days of physical restraint, 2 hours per day; 38%), followed by chronic unpredictable stress (e.g., 40 consecutive days with alternating novel environmental exposures on each day; 33%) and acute restraint stress (e.g., a single bout of physical restraint lasting 30–120 minutes; 21%).")
     
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  10. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Get about these BPS foks don't they.
     
  11. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Until none is left.
    Presumably restraint itself can provoke physical responses? e.g. Trying to break free; moving to and fro as captive animals often do it they have enough room for that; etc.
     
  12. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Indeed.
    Meta analyses are not inherently flawed but they are only as good as the studies used for them of course
     
  13. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thank you, @Valentijn, for your great analysis on this topic! Very helpful.
     
  14. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm worried about a chinese whispers effect where the original message is distorted:

    "Restrained or mistreated mice show alterations in mitochondrial function" becomes "psychological stress affects mitochondrial function", which becomes "abnormal mitochondrial function is also psychological", which becomes "we don't need to study or treat abnormal mitochondrial function because we know it's psychological", which becomes "CBT is a miracle treatment that can fix your mitochondria".
     
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  15. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If only they used this power for good instead of evil
     
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  16. Allele

    Allele Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is the same dangerous point of view that got Justina Pelletier, who suffers from mitochondrial disease, medically kidnapped by Boston's Children's Hospital and sectioned for over a year.
     
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  17. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If only there were studies of people who like to torture animals out of 'interest' and to observe 'biology'...
     
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  18. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The BPSers like to torture humans, so there should be a comparative study. With our two ideas hopefully we can get double the seed funding. :emoji_face_palm:
     
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  19. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don't know much science, but this all seems pointless. If you want to study people who are physically restrained, and in stressful situations, it's not like there is a lack of options.

    At least they keep the facepalm emote designers employed, I guess.
     
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  20. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thats my point, they are harming us in the cause of lies. I would personally like to see them face a courtroom but even when we have a biomarker and become like MS or diabetes its very unlikely they will face consequences for their crimes against humanity :cry:
     
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