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Protocol: Persistent physical symptoms reduction intervention: a system change and evaluation (PRINCE), 2015 onwards, Chalder, Moss-Morris, et al

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS Research' started by Sly Saint, Feb 1, 2019.

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  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    (Not sure exactly what these are, but results are due I think?)

    PRINCE Primary: Integrated GP Care for Persistent Physical Symptoms - a Feasibility & Cluster Randomised Controlled Trial (PRINCE Primary)

    Sponsor:
    King's College London
    Collaborator:
    South London and Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust
    Information provided by (Responsible Party):
    King's College London
    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02444520

    The PRINCE Secondary Study: Persistent Physical Symptoms Reduction Intervention: a System Change and Evaluation in Secondary Care




    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02426788


    (see also page 20 of this document:
    https://kcl-mrcdtp.com/wp-content/u...2-Project-Catalogue-201718-Updated-June18.pdf
    17.2 Understanding transtherapeutic mechanisms in cognitive behavioral interventions for patients with Persistent Physical Symptoms

     
  2. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Has there ever been a solution more desperately in search of a problem? I guess they kind of solved that problem by just inventing a fictional representation of the problem but still it's pathological at this point.

    CBT will make your car go faster.

    CBT will make the sun shine brighter.

    CBT will dissolve calcium deposits in your drain.

    Ironically this is the biggest tell of all about snake oil: claiming that it basically works for everything. Nothing does. It's not a thing.
     
  3. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    CBT trains you to fill in questionnaires differently.
     
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  4. shak8

    shak8 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    CBT= Could Be Tripe

    Do y'all have other meanings for this meaningless acronym?
     
  5. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That's the most depressing thing of all. "Fatigue was reduced". No, no it wasn't, you can't know or verify that. This whole body of research literally makes a point of pretending to help people whose health problems (I'm sorry... health "complaints") cannot be tested for. It shouldn't even be allowed to make definitive statements like this, especially when the premise is "these people can't actually be sick since we can't test for it". Nevermind that it's a secondary symptom and that the participants may or may not have ME...

    Then again, the whole premise of PACE is that our judgment is flawed yet it relies on our judgment as evidence that it worked, the very same judgment that has been opinionated to be flawed, something which can't be tested for either. We can't test (yet) this particular diagnosis so clearly they have this other diagnosis which is impossible to test for either but just trust us over this will ya, and don't listen to the people doing this "biomedical research" thing, they're clearly biased with their machines and numbers and whatnot.

    Catch-22 disease, I tell ya.
     
  6. ScottTriGuy

    ScottTriGuy Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    CBT = Cannot Be True
     
  7. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    As I indicated in a previous universe the original meaning was:

    Cardigan Bleu Thérapeutique
     
  8. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    As we have been told on another thread these 40% of cases do not actually have a medical condition. They need to play chess. Psychotherapists are much too expensive these days.
     
  9. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Complete Bloody Tripe - maybe
     
  10. wdb

    wdb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    CBT would without any doubt do all of those things provided all measurements were made by questionnaire.
     
  11. ladycatlover

    ladycatlover Moderator Staff Member

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    I got badly confused by this as I thought PPS was Post Polio Syndrome. How dare these psychos take over (by using the PPS label) a very debilitating late illness following Polio in early life. :mad:
     
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  12. Andy

    Andy Committee Member & Outreach

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    Can't Believe (it's a) Therapy?
    Creepy Brain Therapy?
    Complete Bullshit Triumphs?
     
  13. Willow

    Willow Established Member

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    CBT = Can't Be Trusted
     
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  14. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Complete bullsh!t thinking?
     
  15. Willow

    Willow Established Member

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    CBT= Chalder's Beliefs Techniques
     
  16. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The clear presumption is that core mechanisms are psychological. So no risk of any bias creeping in there then :rolleyes:.
     
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  17. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    Unfortunately I'm proof of this. I have been playing online chess obsessively since last April (as a way to pass the time and keep my spirits up since all my other hobbies have had to be cancelled). In that time my health has improved. So I obviously didn't have a medical condition and chess has done the trick. I still can't shovel snow, but let's not complicate things.
     
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  18. Sarah

    Sarah Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Sounds like a chess infection.. Common rookie error to overlook.
     
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  19. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    Well I must admit, knights can be a little hoarse.
     
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  20. Simbindi

    Simbindi Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    In the words of Matt Hancock: Secretary of State for Health and Social Care Matt Hancock said: “Personalised care is the future and there’s growing evidence that supporting people to access community services and activities, such as chess clubs or dance classes, has the power to improve people’s health and wellbeing. For the first time ever, millions of people across the country will soon be able to access care that is truly tailored to their individual needs."

    Link at: https://www.england.nhs.uk/2019/01/army-of-workers-to-support-family-doctors/

    Summary Plain English version available at: https://www.networks.nhs.uk/editors-blog/in-the-consulting-room-social-prescribing
     

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