Protandim

Hutan

Hutan

Moderator
Staff member
I have heard about Protandim, a supplement in pill form. The cost is NZ$40 per week.

It is sold through a multi-level marketing structure. I have heard that people are being paid for sales with skin care products that are part of the Life Vantage range; they have to sell the skin care products to make money.

Apparently Protandim will be making presentations around New Zealand very soon. It was claimed that the product reduces oxidative stress and ensures mitochondria are healthy. It was claimed that the product is totally safe.

This review of Protandim looks useful:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/i-was-wrong-about-protandim/

I have written about Protandim several times. In May, 2017, I said that while there was no evidence from human studies that it improved meaningful clinical health outcomes, Protandim was probably safe to try. I based my opinion about its safety on a human trial in athletes. That trial was negative, but I relied on its report of signs/symptoms to conclude that side effects were not significantly more likely with Protandim than with placebo. That was unwise of me. A research scientist who wishes to remain anonymous recently emailed me to point out some serious flaws in that study. The authors fudged or carelessly miscalculated the data, which actually show that side effects are almost twice as common with Protandim as with placebo. And there were a number of other irregularities.
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Protandim is a mixture of milk thistle, Bacopa extract, Ashwagandha, green tea extract, and turmeric extract. It is supposed to indirectly increase antioxidant activity. But there have now been three double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trials in humans, all showing that it did not increase antioxidant activity.
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The multi-level marketing approach is a particularly clever one; higher level marketers can make all sorts of suggestions about efficacy verbally that are amplified as they are passed down the chain. But, there's no record of the claims that are made.

Here's the New Zealand site
https://nz.lifevantage.com/products/protandim-dual/
BENEFITS
  • Reduce oxidative stress*
  • Combat the effects of aging caused by oxidative stress*
  • Activate Nrf2 protein to turn on natural antioxidant production*
  • Repair and rejuvenate cells*
  • Protect cells from free radical damage*
  • Promote cellular repair*
  • Enhance daily performance and energy levels*
  • Boost cellular health so that cells function at peak performance*
  • Reverse cellular aging by targeting genes to support chromosome maintenance*
  • Improve sleep quality*
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*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent disease.
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Edited to remove details that might identify people.
 
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I choose not to question the efficacy of anything sold, repeatedly, by MLM marketing.

The reasons for this are simple;

The whole point of pyramid schemes (which includes MLM) is to make money for those at the top, at the expense of those on lower levels, which includes end customers.

What is sold is completely irrelevant - if the idea was to make money selling something then different marketing techniques would be employed, the idea is to make money out of the distribution chain, not out of the 'product'.

As for the ingredients - surely everyone with ME has tried all of them, there's nothing that isn't easily available in there.

I can't see a particular ratio of various things making any difference in this case.

So it's just another overpriced supplement, with somewhat dubious 'evidence', with the added problem of its marketing.

milk thistle, causes me issues with a few days,
as far as I know ashwagandha is sort of restricted in some countries because of its side effect profile (although it had no noticeable effect on me),
green tea extract is also questionable re side effects.

The mixture is probably not benign in all cases.
 
Beware if they start offering "money back offers" for people to try it for a period of time.

That's what happened when "Forever Living" began to target ME groups in the 1990s with their aloe vera juice claims. It was the usual thing. Someone who claimed to have had ME starting joining groups. They offered money back to anyone who wanted to try it. What could possibly go wrong?

PWME who did buy it and found that they got worse had the money back claim refused because they didn't complete a course of it. I wasn't aware of anyone who recovered or got their money back in the end.
 
According to Wikipedia:
Protandim consists mainly of a blend of 5 herbal ingredients (amounts per caplet listed in parentheses):[36]

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I can buy those herbs individually, they are all very accessible and cheap, so I see no reason why you would want to buy this expensive product even under the hypothetical that it was somehow proven to work.
 
SALT LAKE CITY, Aug. 14, 2019 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- LifeVantage Corporation (Nasdaq: LFVN) today reported financial results for its fourth quarter and full fiscal year ended June 30, 2019.
  • Fourth quarter revenue in the Americas decreased 2.9% year over year, while revenue in Asia/Pacific & Europe increased 24.4% year over year;
Fiscal Year 2019 Highlights:
  • Revenue increased 11.2% to $226.0 million;

  • Revenue in the Americas increased 7.7% and revenue in Asia/Pacific & Europe increased 21.6%;

  • Adjusted EBITDA increased 22.4% to $18.2 million;
"We are proud to report a strong finish to fiscal 2019, generating the highest annual revenue in the Company’s history while exceeding our fiscal 2019 adjusted EPS guidance,” stated LifeVantage President and Chief Executive Officer, Darren Jensen. “We continue to see positive trends in our active member counts, reflecting successful execution of each of our 2019 strategic initiatives. We have also expanded our geographic footprint and enhanced our innovative product offering.

Trish said:
Is there any law in New Zealand about advertising and selling products like this and making medical claims?
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Good question; I don't think MLM marketing is illegal here. I guess LifeVantage learned things from the FDA process in 2017 where they were told they couldn't say that it helps Alzheimers, cancer etc; I can't find anything like that.
 
Trish said:
Thanks for the warning, @Hutan. Is there any law in New Zealand about advertising and selling products like this and making medical claims?
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I'm pretty sure there are rules around advertising that say you are not allowed to claim your product treats or cures anything. But the rules are so weak that a sentence like this makes it all legal:
*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent disease.
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Wonko said:
The mixture is probably not benign in all cases.
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Personal experience with the individual components would confirm this.

I've never tried milk thistle. Ashwagandha, green tea and turmeric had zero effect for me, neither positive nor negative.

Bacopa caused nausea, cramps and what WebMD calls
"congestion" in the intestines. This might cause problems in people who have a blockage in their intestines.
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I don't know how dangerous that is but it sure is unpleasant. My bottle of bacopa quickly went into the bin.
 
The data for what is in a cup of green tea is all over the place, but it looks like there might be 100 mg of EGCG (a key active chemical) and around 25 mg of caffeine.

The total amount of 'green tea extract' in Protandim's tablet is 75mg, so the content of any component is going to be less than 75mg. I found it stated that 98% of the (Protandim's) green tea extract is polyphenols and 45% is one specific polyphenol, EGCG, so that's 34 mg of EGCG, substantially less than what you would get from a cup of green tea.

Caffeine isn't a polyphenol, so at most, if the stated content is correct, there is 1.5mg of caffeine in a tablet. Way less than what you would get from a cup of green tea.
 
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Trish said:
Thanks for the warning, @Hutan. Is there any law in New Zealand about advertising and selling products like this and making medical claims?
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Googled pyramid schemes
https://comcom.govt.nz/consumers/dealing-with-typical-situations/pyramid-schemes
But not sure if this counts as a ‘gimmick’ product - see the link. Maybe. I’ll leave that to someone else with more spoons.

There is of course consumer protection law (https://www.consumerprotection.govt...umer-issues/misleading-prices-or-advertising/) but I imagine it’s sadly covered by @Ravn pointing out the disingenuous disclaimer. If you’re clued up enough to complain, you’re clued up enough not to buy in the first place so you won’t be able to complain.

There’s advertising standards authority complaints but that’s industry self regulation and is really just going to mean they tidy up their language to cover their butts. Good for serious breaches only.
 
Oh, and there’s medsafe:
https://medsafe.govt.nz/regulatory/DietarySupplements/Regulation.asp
Which says it has to be a substitute for a food you might consume as part of your diet, not impinge on biosecurity (can’t be a new plant or animal or other organism to the country and adequate measures taken for organisms which might impact our primary industries -farming), contain any medicines (specifically including folic acid) nor controlled drugs, nor make any health claims.

This is the guideline for therapeutic substances: https://medsafe.govt.nz/regulatory/Guideline/GRTPNZ/manufacture-of-medicines.pdf
Which appears to accept a list of overseas authorities certifications.

Stopping now as likely to be getting OT.
 
Subtropical Island said:
nor make any health claims.
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Thanks SI

medsafe said:
Dietary supplements cannot:
  • ...
  • have a stated or implied therapeutic purpose - the definition of a therapeutic purpose is given in the Medicines Act 1981.
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Medicines Amendment Act 2013 said:
Meaning of therapeutic purpose

In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires, therapeutic purpose means any of the following purposes, or a purpose in connection with any of the following purposes:
(a) preventing, diagnosing, monitoring, alleviating, treating, curing, or compensating for, a disease, ailment, defect, or injury; or
(b) influencing, inhibiting, or modifying a physiological process; or
(c) testing the susceptibility of persons to a disease or ailment; or
(d) influencing, controlling, or preventing conception; or
(e) testing for pregnancy; or
(f)investigating, replacing, or modifying parts of the human anatomy.
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It could be worth checking out claims of dietary supplements like Protandim against that meaning. Possibly also LP and its knockoffs.
 
I suspect it all comes down to precise wording and legal interpretation of it.

My magnesium supplement (which I take for other reasons, not ME) states: "helps to relax muscles and to maintain an already normal blood flow. It can also support a steady heart rhythm and a healthy immune system, as well as keeping bones strong".

Then there's the standard "These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent disease".

To me the first quote suggests the supplement can prevent, alleviate, treat, or compensate for a defect, and that it is capable of and intended to influence or modify a physiological process. But I suspect weasel phrasing like "supports", "helps", and "already normal" are legally interpreted differently, especially together with the second quote.
 
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