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Physiological measures in participants with CFS, multiple sclerosis and healthy controls following repeated exercise, 2017, Hodges et al

Discussion in 'BioMedical ME/CFS Research' started by Sasha, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Published back in August but I didn't notice it then.

    Small pilot study.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/wol1/doi/10.1111/cpf.12460/abstract
     
  2. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm assuming this is an independent replication of the two day exercise testing.
     
  3. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The authors are all in New Zealand, so yes, it seems so.
     
  4. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    This study was followed by a CPET study with 48 and 72 hours between CPET measurements.

    @Daisybell and I participated in this second study. The results have not yet been published, as far as I know.
     
  5. Woolie

    Woolie Committee member

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    So glad to see NZ associated with something other than Keith Petrie and Rona Moss Morris.
     
  6. Simon M

    Simon M Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Well, certainly a very worthwhile approach but a pilot and only 7 mecfs and 7 MS patients makes the conclusion somewhat overblown
    I’m willing to bet they didn’t correct statistics appropriately for all the many comparisons, which might do for the stat sig results.

    Above all, we know that results from previous exercise studies on mecfs patients are all over the place, and until researchers can identify and achieve consistent results for mecfs patients (perhaps by sub groups), it’s likely to be impossible to have a meaningful comparison with other conditions.
     
  7. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Is the point not that ME patients, even if not all of them, do not have the same results on the second day? It is so taken for granted that everyone has the same results if this test is repeated that patients with heart disease or lung problems are only given the one test.

    While it cannot be proved that no MS patient or heart patient will not have different results, a single ME patient who does deteriorate shows this is something that desperately needs to be studied.
     
    Inara, Wonko, Woolie and 1 other person like this.
  8. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It does state it's a pilot study, and suggests rather than claims. A bigger study would be good of course.
     
    adambeyoncelowe, Jan, Mij and 3 others like this.
  9. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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  10. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Whilst I can see the value in being able to demonstrate a marked dropoff in performance for pwME I worry, given the sort of linguistic trickery we have seen in the UK, that the use of word "repeated" may be misused.

    That we will end up with what bears striking similarity to the old witchfinder trials.

    Just keep testing them - if they get better they're okay, if they die they were clearly ill, oops - but at least we don't have to treat them, or put up with them in our nice cosy society. Win win, from one point of view.

    Probably just me
     
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  11. Skycloud

    Skycloud Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @ Wonko Not something that had occured to me, but I wouldn't be surprised!
     
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  12. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don't see this as necesarily just about an in-service diagnostics strategy. Initially it is about paving the way for changing people's attitudes, helping them see there really are biological differentiators that distinguish ME from other conditions. Maybe then motivating further research to develop more viable in-service diagnostics. This line of research, especially if replicated on a larger scale, could be a big nail in the BPS coffin. Now where did I put that hammer.
     
    adambeyoncelowe, Woolie, Jan and 5 others like this.
  13. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Is this it?

    pdf:
    https://mro.massey.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10179/14653/02_whole.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
  14. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll set up a new thread for this paper, here. The section on CBT and GET looks disappointing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019

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