Patients with [long Covid] attending a multidisciplinary evaluation: Characteristics, medical conclusions, and satisfaction, Gouraud et al, 2023

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic research - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by SNT Gatchaman, Sep 24, 2023.

  1. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,486
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    Patients with persistent symptoms after COVID-19 attending a multidisciplinary evaluation: Characteristics, medical conclusions, and satisfaction
    Gouraud; Thoreux; Ouazana-Vedrines; Pitron; Betouche; Bolloch; Caumes; Guemouni; Xiang; Lemogne; Ranque

    Objective
    Among patients attending a multidisciplinary day-hospital program for persistent symptoms after COVID-19, we aimed i) to describe their characteristics ii) to present the medical conclusions (diagnoses and recommendations) and iii) to assess the patients' satisfaction and its correlates.

    Methods
    For this retrospective chart review study, frequent symptoms were systematically assessed. Standardized questionnaires explored fatigue (Pichot scale), physical activity (Ricci & Gagnon scale), health-related quality of life (Short-Form Health Survey), anxiety and depressive symptoms (Hospital Anxiety and Depression scale) and associated psychological burden (Somatic-Symptom-Disorder B criteria Scale). Medical record conclusions were collected and a satisfaction survey was performed at 3-months follow-up.

    Results
    Among 286 consecutive patients (median age: 44 years; 70% women), the most frequent symptoms were fatigue (86%), breathlessness (65%), joint/muscular pain (61%) and cognitive dysfunction (58%), with a median duration of 429 days (Inter-quartile range (IqR): 216–624). Questionnaires revealed low levels of physical activity and quality of life, and high levels of fatigue, anxiety, depression, and psychological burden, with 32% and 23% meeting the diagnostic criteria for a depressive or anxiety disorder, respectively. Positive arguments for a functional somatic disorder were found in 76% of patients, including 96% with no abnormal clinical or test findings that may explain the symptoms. Physical activity rehabilitation was recommended for 91% of patients. Patients' median satisfaction was 8/10 (IqR: 6–9).

    Conclusion
    Most patients attending this program presented with long-lasting symptoms and severe quality of life impairment, received a diagnosis of functional somatic disorder, and reported high levels of satisfaction regarding the program.

    Highlights

    • Patients with persistent symptoms after COVID-19, attending a day-hospital program.

    • Abnormal clinical or test findings that may explain the symptoms were rare (<10%).

    • A functional somatic disorder was diagnosed in 72% of patients.

    • A large majority of patients were recommended physical activity rehabilitation.

    • Satisfaction regarding the program was high, regardless of the main diagnosis.

    Link | Paywall (Journal of Psychosomatic Research)
     
    duncan, RedFox and Hutan like this.
  2. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,486
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    Selected quotes from methods —

     
    duncan, Trish, Hutan and 1 other person like this.
  3. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,486
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    Selected quotes from results —

     
    duncan and Hutan like this.
  4. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,486
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    Screenshot 2023-09-25 at 10.07.55 AM Medium.jpeg
     
    Hutan likes this.
  5. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,486
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    Selected quotes from discussion —

     
    duncan and Hutan like this.
  6. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,486
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    Again, as we keep saying, no-one does this. The patients all report trying to get back to normal life and exertion (as I did). Perhaps they didn't even have a symptomatic episode, but rather an asymptomatic one (also as I suspect I did).

    I guess at least the needle has moved from "promising" to "could be promising".
     
    duncan, alktipping, RedFox and 4 others like this.
  7. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,046
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    And so it goes on.

    Followup was at 3 months. Do they say how many of the 286 patients participated in the follow-up? As far as I can see, from the figures in the table posted above (numbers and percentages of the total - sample sizes are not directly reported ), the followup participation rate was about 50%.

    The number of people who participated in the followup satisfaction survey is important information left out of the abstract.

    I guess 3 months is short enough that many of the patients who did participate in the followup may not have yet realised that the diagnosis and recommended treatments were not helping.
     
    duncan, RedFox, EndME and 6 others like this.
  8. alktipping

    alktipping Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,201
    So heavily invested in repeating the same wilful mistakes of the past. gigo again.
     
    bobbler, Ash, Chezboo and 5 others like this.
  9. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,240
    Location:
    Australia
    and reported high levels of satisfaction regarding the program.

    Yes, yes, yes. But did they recover?

    I would report extraordinarily high levels of satisfaction from eating ice cream. But it does nothing to solve any of my health problems.
     
    bobbler, Ash, alktipping and 3 others like this.
  10. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,486
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    Still concluding —

    This high level of satisfaction might result from our approach that does not oppose psychological mechanisms to other mechanisms. Indeed, although the conclusion of clinical or paraclinical abnormal findings potentially explaining the symptoms was associated with higher levels of overall satisfaction, the conclusion of positive arguments in favor of a diagnosis of functional somatic disorder did not alter satisfaction levels.

    A recognition that their "psychoeducational intervention" and language obfuscation may have had an effect —

    Of course it will. We could write the paper for them now: "promising".
     
    bobbler, Ash, alktipping and 3 others like this.
  11. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,046
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    Thanks for posting all of this SNT.

    Do they give any further information about the results of the satisfaction survey?
    If only 49% of the participants bothered to participate in the followup, I think it's safe to assume that most of the 'non-respondents' were not that grateful for the service they had received.

    Given the interquartile ratio, it looks as though a quarter of the respondents gave a rating of 5 or below, which I think, given the politeness of people, probably counts as not satisfied.

    So, 51% unknown but almost certainly mostly not highly satisfied + (25% of 49% = 12.25%) definitely not satisfied. It's looking to me as if a clear majority was not highly satisfied. With such a loss to followup, the authors absolutely do not have a basis for making the claims they do about satisfaction.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2023
    bobbler, duncan, alktipping and 3 others like this.
  12. cassava7

    cassava7 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    986
    Merged thread

    Besides the low quality of evidence (retrospective study with a satisfaction survey), Prof Lemogne is an associate editor of the Journal of Psychosomatic Research. He was part of Matta et al’s study in JAMA Internal Medicine that purported to show that long Covid was associated with the belief of having had Covid but not serological testing, which was thoroughly scrutinized and subsequently corrected.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2023
    alktipping, bobbler, duncan and 5 others like this.
  13. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,046
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    I find this a bit horrifying - here is the reality of the BPS capture of Long Covid. People with persistent symptoms, with physical incapacity, are going to this clinic for help and, according to the abstract, the response is to tell 91% to exercise. 76% appear to be diagnosed with functional somatic disorder.

    Can anyone see the full paper and report how many people these researchers say answered the satisfaction survey? Edit - threads have been merged - I suppose at least my reactions are consistent.

    Is there any social media where people who have been to this clinic discuss their experiences?
    Do the patients understand that they have received a diagnosis of functional symptom disorder?
    Do they know what that diagnosis means?
    Is it likely that it is mostly patients inclined to believe in the concept of functional somatic disorder who go to the clinic?
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2023
    alktipping, bobbler, Sean and 6 others like this.
  14. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,613
    From the paper:
    "A total of 140 patients responded to our invitation to be contacted for the satisfaction survey at 3-month follow-up (49.0% of the whole sample). Median [IqR] rating for overall satisfaction, perceived effectiveness, and level of recommendation to other patients were 8 [6–9], 7 [4–9] and 9 [6–10], respectively. Among the subgroup of 81 patients who received a diagnosis of functional somatic disorder, satisfaction results were similar: 8 [6–10)], 7 [3–10] and 9 [6–10], with no significant difference compared to those who did not (All p > 0.27 for Kruskal Wallis' tests)."

    They also note that "higher age, male gender, and having a clinical or paraclinical abnormality potentially explaining the symptoms were associated with higher levels of overall satisfaction, but not with the level of perceived effectiveness or estimated level of recommendation to other patients despite similar trends".
     
    Sean, Hutan, cassava7 and 2 others like this.
  15. cassava7

    cassava7 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    986
    I do not have access to the paper but I have been told that it was 50%.

    Yes, long haulers who have been there do not recommend it at all. ApresJ20, the main long Covid patient organization in France, does not recommend it either.

    Last year, as part of a small documentary on treatments for long Covid, a journalist with long Covid from the French public TV channel France 2 filmed the treatment that she was given at this clinic. Lemogne and Ranque were presenting FND-like explanations for long Covid symptoms and offered mindfulness therapy. The journalist ridiculed them in the report.
    CASPER is one of the only long Covid clinics based at a public hospital and it is in the heart of Paris, so this is why patients are being referred there, not because they have some particular inclination to believe in functional disorders.
     
    alktipping, bobbler, Sean and 7 others like this.
  16. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    12,495
    Location:
    Canada
    This is all very disturbing in that it shows that clinicians and researchers will report positive conclusions regardless of outcomes, even when there is widespread condemnation and reports of harm and psychological distress caused by gaslighting. There is a complete disconnect between patients and physicians, and as we've seen in a paper posted today, they will simply blame the patients no matter what, insisting that they are right simply because they could not possibly be wrong.

    How can we trust the rest of medical evidence given this? This is terrible for trust in experts.
     
    alktipping, bobbler, Sean and 4 others like this.
  17. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,240
    Location:
    Australia
    And trust is, by far, the single most important resource in clinical medicine.

    Medicine already has a big enough problem with unjustified lack of trust, and they seem hell bent on adding a mountain of justified lack of trust on top of it. That cannot end well.
     
    rvallee and SNT Gatchaman like this.

Share This Page