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Patentscope: Prevention and/or treatment of chronic fatigue syndrome

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Ravn, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. Ravn

    Ravn Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Interested to hear the views of the science-literate members on this one.

    Patent application is for a product containing oxalic acid and derivatives, of all things. Certainly different.

    Reminder for all you test-it-on-yourselfers: too much oxalic acid is highly toxic and there have been fatalities so maybe this isn't one to try at home.

    Too much for me to read so don't know if there's going to be proper clinical trial of this. For now it's just a patent application.

    https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2018097733&recNum=2&maxRec=2&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=Pub+Date+Desc&queryString=FP:(+BOHNE+ASKØY)&tab=PCTDescription

    Note: Saw this on PR (https://forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...t-by-victoria-bohne-in-norwegian.44871/page-4). The folks over there don't seem to have excessive confidence in the people behind this patent application.
    ETA: The first pages of the PR thread are just speculation about rumours about what may or may not be being planned – pure guesswork. The patent application link pops up on page 4. To date (12/6/18) there's no real useful follow-up discussion there but this may change of course.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
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  2. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thank you for this link. There has been a lot of rumours and secrecy about this - for years - and very difficult to form an opinion.
    Victoria Bohne used to work as a scientist for the salmon farming industry until she became ill with ME. She has treated a few ME patients and rumours have it they've improved - but it has been very hard to assess anything of this for outsiders.

    I'd be very interested too to hear from our science-literate members here!
     
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  3. Andy

    Andy Committee Member & Outreach

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    I've nothing serious to add other than this, for reference.
    Wikipedia article on oxalic acid, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_acid
     
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  4. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I suspect a homeopathic remedy could prevent ME/CFS by almost 99%.
    In fact in a short trial it could prevent well over 99% of cases.
    So now i can patent and sell it.

    I'm gonna be so rich!
     
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  5. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    The patent application is long and rather rambling. From what I saw skimming through it, the treatment seems to be a fruit and vegetable smoothie made with high oxalate foods, the most 'effective' one containing spinach.

    I looked up oxalate content of spinach and it's around 650mg oxalate in 100g spinach, which seems to be the daily dose recommended under this patented treatment.

    They also talk about using it in combination with other nutrients.
    They talk a lot about measuring lactate levels in patients and hyperlactaemia.

    They have only tested it on a few patients, and not under proper clinical trial conditions.

    If you are thinking of trying this, a big health warning - oxalates can give you kidney stones and gall stones - very painful and unpleasant. A daily dose of that much spinach and other high oxalate foods seems like a very bad idea.

    I'm very skeptical.
     
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  6. Helen

    Helen Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I´m a bit confused as the supplement that first was discussed in the thread on PR is a supplement called Peptide+ or in English https://pepticin.com/. It is available as a pill. Maybe someone can sort this out.
     
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  7. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  8. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    are they really trying to patent something you can get loads of just by whizzing up spinach o_O
     
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  9. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    They would patent air if they could...
     
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  10. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I looked at the PR thread. It seemed to be something someone found randomly that was vaguely connected possibly to the person involved in this patent. Looks like it's irrelevant.
     
  11. Indigophoton

    Indigophoton Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This seems a fairly trivial amount: the size of a portion of spinach, according to the UK government's 5-a-day strategy, is 80g, which shrinks when steamed to about half a teacup's worth, depending on how long it's cooked for. (I know this because I have to specify how much spinach to use or my carers think a dozen leaves is a lot, and I end up with half a teaspoon :rolleyes:).

    Having just googled it, apparently, according to the U of Chicago, eating calcium-rich foods offsets the kidney stone issue, for anyone who is now concerned about spinach.
     
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  12. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    cheese with the spinach then = sounds about right for this patent:whistle:
     
  13. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I think the point is that most people don't eat that much spinach every day. And it's specifically spinach, other green veg have far less oxalate. Rhubarb is the other well known high oxalate food - rhubarb leaves are poisonous.
     
  14. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I can testify to that and I assure you it's not fun; even before you get to the stone stage the crystals break off in the kidney (bit like a furred up kettle) and attempt to make their way out of the body.
    I had regular bouts of renal colic lasting up to 48 hours. No pain killers (even morphine) touched it.

    Just about every food has oxalates (ie not just the very short list on the NHS website). I no longer eat spinach and have had to reduce/cut out several other things that are very high.
     
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  15. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    oh heck Sly what a nightmare
     
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  16. Helen

    Helen Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I read that thread too, but that was about quite another product that contains peptides from salmon protein a.o. I think it is too early to dismiss that one. If the effects that the inventor claims are true, it might well help other PWME. It might be snake oil, but actually we don´t know. Anyway, then I got it right that it is about two totally different products from the same inventor and there is still a lot to prove for her. Thanks for your input.
     
  17. Marky

    Marky Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Ah niice, was looking for a thread on this. After reading the patent i was kinda bamboozled, will i improve by eating rhubarb and secreting kidney stones:thumbup: A few people i know say they have improved, one even got out of a dark room some years ago. Dont know the status now though. I wont be dismissive of this yet, but im not getting my hopes up either. The secrecy and communication from them is a bit, curious. That said, i wouldnt be totally surprised if some cocktail could improve our energy levels either.

    And what were they saying about lactate levels again? I checked mine some months ago, and i had hyperlactatemia, which explains why my legs always are lactic!:trophy@
     
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  18. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Here is one list :http://www.pkdiet.com/pdf/LowOxalateDiet.pdf
    but there are many on the internet and they often contradict each other. I can't find the one I used (I changed pcs). As mentioned in indigophotons post above, I also increased my calcium intake although apparently oxalates also bind(?) well to magnesium.

    For me it went on for a year and a half before I sorted it out, no thanks to my GP at the time who just kept referring me for scans but apparently did not look at the urine test results properly (done fairly early on) which confirmed the problem. But at that time I was still unaware of just how many things had oxalates and it was only when the problem began to reoccur (I'd gone on a 'healthy eating' binge) that I dug further into it and found all these lists.

    I had one nightmarish trip to A&E (never again!).

    But seriously, anyone thinking of doing this should really do their homework.
     
  19. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  20. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is similar to what I've been doing in the last six months. Fruit and berry smoothies, and cooked spinach. Can't say it's making a large impact but it does seem to help. It's also delicious.

    If by any chance I suddenly end up cured, I'll make sure to let you all know :D.

    I don't do it to consume oxalic acid. The idea was more antioxidants, a healthier microbiome and diet.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
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