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Oxalates may be a problem for people with M.E.

Discussion in 'Addressing Chemical & Food Sensitivities' started by Sandra, Jan 18, 2021.

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  1. Sandra

    Sandra Established Member

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    Oxalates are contained in various plant foods such as nuts, beans, potatoes, chocolate and leafy greens, especially spinach. Many people are OK with them, but some people are not. Symptoms of oxalate sensitivity include fatigue, muscle pain, headaches, frequent urination, bladder problems, kidney stones and many more.

    They can also contribute to mitochondrial dysfunction and reduced ability to produce energy and therefore potentially particularly harmful to people with M.E. who are sensitive to them. I was recently inadvertently on a high oxalate diet and one of the things I noticed was that I was able to do much less physically than before.

    If you do have an issue with them it is important that you reduce the amount in your diet very gradually. As the levels in your bloodstream drop, the oxalates that are stored in the body start to be released. This can cause very unpleasant symptoms and can be serious if done too quickly.
    There is a Facebook group called Trying Low Oxalates which has a lot of useful information and here is an article that covers some of the issues: https://www.urologyofva.net/article...amaging-effects-of-oxalates-on-the-human-body
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2021
  2. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Is there any reliable scientific basis to this @Sandra?

    Sure, if you have a tendency to renal stones it may be sensible to avoid high oxalate foods but that is not an issue of sensitivity.

    A lot of that site looks like pseudoscience to me - do you think it has a real basis?
     
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  3. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I avoid foods high in oxalates, I think - like spinach, and beetroot? I can't remember offhand whether it was due to oxalates, but I can't tolerate them. I didn't stop them because of something I read, but due to the actual effects, possibly on my digestion? I can't tolerate Brussels sprouts either, which is a shame as I really like them - they give me bad wind!
     
  4. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Interesting to me because that's basically a list of my migraine triggers (though there are additional ones).
     
  5. Sandra

    Sandra Established Member

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    I agree, that probably wasn't the best page to link to, I just had it to hand at the time. I am convinced that this is an issue for me because reading about it, it explains so many things I have experienced over the last couple of years while I've been trying different diets, and reactions I have to certain supplements.

    I think it is an under-researched area and most of the research that has been done is in relation to kidney issues. The facebook group I mentioned is run by experts and published authors in this area and there is a lot of scientific information on there. My brain fog is quite bad at the moment so I can't really process it (and some of it would probably go over my head anyway), but if anyone is interested I would advise them to join that. I have also just noticed a paper called "Lost Seasonality and Overconsumption of Plants: Risking Oxalate Toxicity" which looks helpful (sorry, can't seem to link to it at the moment but it's open access if you google).

    With regards to the mitochondria, I just did a quick search in the group. One item that came up was a question from a few years ago to the group organiser, Susan Owens (a biomedical researcher who specialises in oxalates and autism), about this and her reply was as follows: "..before I started our oxalate project I spent four months studying the literature on oxalate and found articles describing which enzymes were inhibited by oxalate, and almost all are Mitochondrial.

    The mito world has not discovered that and that happened mainly because the kidney stone doctors put in their literature that stones were the only problem physicians needed to worry about so no one realized oxalate goes virtually everywhere in the body and can cause damage in all those places. That is why I set up our groups to be open to anyone who wants to see if their health improves by reducing oxalate. My knowledge of the slc26a family of transporters is what brought me to this broader understanding."

    A quick search on Google Scholar for "oxalate" and "mitochondria" brings up lots of papers, but again most are related to kidney issues. This one looks like it might be interesting: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213231717307565, but sorry, I haven't really got the brain power to process it atm or to do a proper search of the literature.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2021
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  6. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    salicylates can also trigger migraines in some people.

    @Sandra if you click on the tag 'oxalates' at the top of the thread you will see other threads on oxalates.
    I had a big problem with them.
     
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  7. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    So I'm not supposed to eat meat (environmental reasons), fish (overfishing), sugars (diabetes), carbs (turn into sugars), metals, anything with palm oil involved, and now plants.

    Rock salad surprise it is then.
     
  8. Sandra

    Sandra Established Member

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    Thanks, I had missed that. That article you linked to looks interesting, I will read it properly when my head's a bit clearer.

    Histamine also gives me headaches. I think these things are all related. My histamine issues became a lot worse when I was on a high oxalate diet.
     
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  9. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    With due respect, anyone can be an expert and publish. The site does not look like a reliable source of anything. Everyone is entitled to recommend sites but others are also entitled to urge scepticism! The world is full of bogus information just now. This looks like more.
     
  10. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    You normally eat metals??
     
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  11. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Doesn't everyone? AT least everyone who is currently defined as living, as opposed to the many other states of being.

    Metals are on the list of things I am not supposed to eat, so whilst I ingest some metals, from the other things i am not supposed to eat, I don't tend to eat WWII US army jeeps.
     
  12. shak8

    shak8 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Hey, what's wrong with our jeeps?
     
  13. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Need tenderising - but tenderising them is illegal.
     
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  14. Joeblow604

    Joeblow604 Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    I've actually been quite sick this last few years and experiencing alot of pain in epididymis to which no answer has been found as to why. In addition, sinus pain, tinnitus, thirst and need way too much water, teeth seem to be dissolving, etc. All different from my normal ME symptoms.

    At its worst I also noticed my pee became very smelly and alot of sediment (half sediment, half pee). I had that sediment tested and it and it turned out to be calcium oxalate. Looking into it I noticed my diet has been very high oxalate. I switched to a low oxalate diet, b6 supplementation, calcium and lemon water for potassium citrate.

    Within a few weeks the epididymis pain got 90% better, the sinus pain has stopped, the thirst and water regulation has stabilized. The only thing that hasn't gone yet is the tinnitus. Seems to me high oxalate diet does cause some problems.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2021
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