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No Such Thing as Too Much Exercise, Study Finds

Discussion in 'Health News and Research unrelated to ME/CFS' started by Alvin, Oct 23, 2018.

  1. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    They obviously know nothing about ME

    https://gizmodo.com/no-such-thing-as-too-much-exercise-study-finds-1829874676

    I only skimmed the first couple paragraphs
     
  2. Philipp

    Philipp Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Didn't bother to read more than the excerpt you posted, but the general premise is flawed the way it is depicted because a) More exercise than you can handle will decrease fitness transiently because you will be forced to take a break (higher susceptibility to just the common cold etc is a topic among populations that try to get in very high workloads in their training) and, more importantly, b) of course someone with a higher level of cardiovascular fitness will be alive longer because they are a lot less likely to be severely sick. If this is addressed in the article then my points may not apply, but if you're taking clickbaity shortcuts in your headlines then forgive me if I just assume you will not have done your due diligence throughout the entire piece.
     
  3. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I thought someone had shown that if you exercise you might just about live longer by the amount of time you wasted making yourself feel ill exercising. And who wants to live longer? As if that was equal to 'health'.

    And of course the non sequitur is that these data relate to whole populations not ill people. If you have aortic stenosis or obstructive cardiomyopathy then exercise is a good way to make you drop dead.
     
  4. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This article wasn't about ME, though. For a person in reasonably good health it probably is very true.
     
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  5. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That was what i was getting at ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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  6. inox

    inox Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    And meanwhile - that belife, that there is no such thing as to much exercise, has caused an increase in people landing themselfs in hospital with exercise induced rhabdomyolysis:

    https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20180222/exercising-yourself-to-death-the-risk-of-rhabdo

    I know they are actually talking about fitness level here, but most people will remember the message from the headline. So, ironically, the way this research is presented could lead to more people injuring themselfs from exercise...
     
  7. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think the point was that they were making sweeping generalisations. No caveat for ME for eg.
    Not to mention the fact that among most healthy people above a certain level of economic means this info is unnecessary. When I was less ill and raising my children ALL the people I knew (mostly through school) were driven to achieve and live life fully. Because-They-Could.

    This sort of science is in fact mostly aimed at people who have challenges that mean getting the kind of physical exercise that is perceived to be 'correct' is rather difficult.

    These days (and some will beg to differ I'm sure) but there is a trend that you need to dress the part. So you don't go to Yoga (for eg) without your (very expensive) Lulu Lemons. It costs money to stay fit for anything but jogging and even then you need the right clothes or at the very least the right shoes.

    Just my opinion on where these studies are coming from in terms of ideology.
     
  8. inox

    inox Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don't disagree with your points, but I don't think that is the case with this particular study. There seems to be an ongoing discussion of could to much exercice actually be bad for your health:

     
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  9. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm starting to rethink 'living longer' :unsure:
     
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  10. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is all about behavior change. If patient follows healthy behavior A, they get health benefit B.

    The problem comes in assuming that increased exercise is always the healthy behavior. Doctors may automatically prescribe exercise, thinking it is the healthy behavior for all patients. Patients could even be monitored for behavioral compliance, and rewarded (with, for example, lower insurance rates) for following healthy behaviors.

    The problem is that, for ME/CFS, increased aerobic exercise is not generally a healthy behavior. Fortunately, many doctors are already familiar with exercise intolerance in other conditions, such as chronic pulmonary disease. Also, at least in the US, there seems to be growing awareness that graded exercise is not appropriate for ME/CFS patients.

    behavior.png

    fierce.png

    https://pages.questexweb.com/rs/294-MQF-056/images/8386.pdf?aliId=5084751842
     
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  11. inox

    inox Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The study, free access.


    Association of Cardiorespiratory Fitness With Long-term Mortality Among Adults Undergoing Exercise Treadmill Testing
    Kyle Mandsager, MD1; Serge Harb, MD1; Paul Cremer, MD1



    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2707428
     
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  12. inox

    inox Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That's not really what this study was about though? The thesis they tested was:

    That seems relevant and fair to research to me?
     
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  13. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Kaiser Permanente/University of Illinois study suggesting that "White men who exercise at high levels are 86 percent more likely than people who exercise at low levels to experience a buildup of plaque in the heart arteries by middle age". This is a subgroup of patients who need further study to determine the risk of high exercise levels on coronary artery disease.

    Press release:
    https://today.uic.edu/physically-active-white-men-at-high-risk-for-plaque-buildup-in-arteries

    Study:
    25-Year Physical Activity Trajectories and Development of Subclinical Coronary Artery Disease as Measured by Coronary Artery Calcium: The Coronary Artery Risk Development in Young Adults (CARDIA) Study
    Laddu et al 2017
    https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(17)30577-3/fulltext
     
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  14. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    But if I'm reading it correctly, the study finds that the benefits of high cardiorespiratory fitness (CRF) outweigh any previous adverse findings, concluding (bolding mine):
    This seems a blanket recommendation for doctors to encourage high levels of fitness for all patients.
     
  15. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I cannot quite see what this tells us about exercise. It tells us that maybe, in a dirty retrospective study, being fit is associated with living longer. Who says the fitness was due to exercise alone and not also background factors that correlated with longevity?
     
  16. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Maybe the people who exercised more sweated more and this caused all of their negative energy and evil spirits to be sucked out? The more exercise, the more this happened. Possibly exactly the same effect could be seen by redoing the experiments in a sauna with no exercise, or seeing if pouring cold water over people in a freezer has a negative effect on life expectancy?

    Who knows, we need more research, to determine how much we don't know.

    All I keep thinking is, if excessive exercise, with no sensible limits, is so good at increasing life expectancy, where are all the guys who built the pyramids now, that was a fair amount of exercise, surely it should have been enough to keep them ticking over until now.

    But then I'm fried with a tendency towards barking.
     
  17. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This sounds likely! :D

    I heard a report on the radio last night that obese people who exercised excessively could damage their heart.
     

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