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NIH study - where to start?

Discussion in 'ME/CFS research' started by cassava7, Mar 28, 2024.

  1. cassava7

    cassava7 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    985
    I have been out of the loop for a while so I have not read (and am not currently able to) the two long threads on the forums about the NIH study and the use of the EEFRT questionnaire.

    Have there been posts in those threads that have attempted to summarize the criticisms made so far, or perhaps an external blog post? An overview would help tremendously with catching up.

    Thank you to everyone who has been working on debunking this study.

    Moderators - I apologize if I should be replying to the existing threads instead of creating a new one, but I thought it would help people in the same situation as me find what they need more easily.
     
  2. cassava7

    cassava7 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    985
    As a note, I have skimmed through Jeannette Burmeister’s blog post but it does not seem to be addressing in depth the methodological concerns as they are being discussed here and which are the ones I’d like to know about.
     
  3. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Location:
    London, UK
    The most egregious fact seems to be that the claim that PWME show a different 'effort preference' is at best a weak statistical thing and would not be there if the authors had not excluded one of the normal control results as being 'aberrant'. In other words, a disinterested sensible interpretation of the findings is that they were most likely entirely negative and certainly not positive enough to make the interpretation plausible.

    Another serious problem is that subjects were made very aware of their status as patients and that the 'effort' tests were designed to find a difference in behaviour in relation to exertion. That means that any result could have occurred because patients were 'fulfilling a role' - which most people find it very hard not to do. Their mental processes would have been totally different from those of controls simply because they knew they were the test cases. So the fMRI data showing brain activity are completely uninterpretable.
     
    tmrw, Lilas, Arvo and 16 others like this.
  4. Evergreen

    Evergreen Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    After about 7 pages of discussion of the EEfRT task, I tried to summarise what we as a group had figured out so far by pulling out key observations. Hope this will help.

    Use of EEfRT in the NIH study: Deep phenotyping of PI-ME/CFS, 2024, Walitt et al

    Edit: The authors of the NIH study have proposed that the fact that pwME chose a lower proportion of hard tasks in the EEfRT task demonstrates that we have altered "effort preference". People on here think that it doesn't show that at all.
     
    JoClaire, bobbler, Lilas and 10 others like this.
  5. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    1,906
    Study claimed that there was ongoing/chronic antigenic stimulation that was causing problems but they identified NO antigen.

    Had they identified said antigen, study would have been a game changer…. But they did not.
     
    Lilas, Arvo, Kitty and 6 others like this.
  6. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    2,652
    Laughing - back to that @Brian Hughes cartoon ---- apart from the subjective outcome criteria ++++ not that bad a study!
    Whatever you do don't mention the $8 million & 8 years --- it took to produce this!
     
    Lilas, Arvo, Kitty and 4 others like this.
  7. Janna Moen PhD

    Janna Moen PhD Established Member

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    7
    I am actually working on a blog post for this purpose, but it's taking quite some time. I'm glad to have found this forum as the folks here are discussing the same issues I noted during my detailed read-through. I am also going through most of their citations to determine whether the information they present is supported by the references, and how many of the ME papers they cite take a BPS approach. Hopefully in the next few weeks I will be able to write everything up.

    Also, hello, this is my first post!
     
    Chris, Evergreen, JoClaire and 30 others like this.
  8. Wits_End

    Wits_End Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    1,344
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    Welcome, then, Janna! Sounds as though you'll be a good person to have on board.
     
    Simon M, rvallee, Arvo and 7 others like this.
  9. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    26,959
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    One of the other biggest concerns @cassava7 was the small size of the cohorts. For most of the studies, the size is considerably smaller than the headline sizes of 27 controls and 17 people with ME/CFS. Often more like 8 or 10 people in each group. Not many people actually made it to the second session of testing.

    Making it even worse was the lack of proper matching between the controls and ME/CFS group. Controls skewed substantially older; the ME/CFS group had substantially more people with a BMI >30.

    The result is that basically all of the studies are too small to produce any findings that can be relied on. Which is a shame.

    So, although there is an enormous amount of investigations and data in that study, there's a big chance that important findings were buried under statistical noise, and that statistical noise has been elevated to supposed findings. It's pretty much worse than not having done a study at all.

    Also, oddly, there was no mention of the WASF3 finding from this cohort, which was reported elsewhere.
     
    Lilas, wigglethemouse, Comet and 14 others like this.
  10. Simon M

    Simon M Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Hi, Janna, and welcome to the forum. Look forward to reading your blog.
     
    JoClaire, Missense, rvallee and 12 others like this.
  11. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    It's terrific to have you with us Janna, I too look forward to hearing more from you.
     
    Simon M, Missense, rvallee and 6 others like this.

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