Muscle and joint stiffness worsened by activity

[bobbler]

Severely affected and difficult to say tbh because not very physically active, I’d say no. Maybe if I was more active? Maybe ‘it’s complicated’ would be better as an answer. But it’s not something I’d say is noticeable or limiting currently. There’s can be a sort of pain or tightness perhaps, but it doesn’t feel like the muscular stiffness you describe. And definitely no new/different cracking or stiff joints as described.

interesting that I just read your post and then @AliceLily in this order.

If was thinking of what came first since I first had ME (I remember overly sore legs, particularly calves but it affecting my gait partly because of this and the tendency to combine determination to still try and walk as fast with being exhausted) and specifically about stiffness then the hands stand out and wasn't due to anything like age or deconditioning. I'd and still am always trying to stretch them out like they are stiff and feel like they are stuck and should be able to span further than they can. In the recent year, which is decades in, I can sometimes actually finally get the odd click/clunk on my thumb or a finger and that doesn't relieve it but feels a joy when it happens.

And I'd get a clicking uncomfortable wrist particularly if I'd been using eg my laptop a lot.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

more akin to stiffness in overused or injured joints and muscle groups that they saw in athletes.

I am not sure what that would be other than pain or discomfort on use.

Overused muscles don't get stiff in any other sense that I am aware of and joints would only be stiff in the sense of restricted if swollen.

 

[bobbler]

Crackling occurs in tendon and joint compartments in two contexts. It is not related to muscle.

Bony or cartilaginous cracking or grating occurs in old people and others with destructive arthritis.

Soft tissue crackling is a sign of healthy tissue and is extremely common in young women who most frequently mention it to me in the context of sports, worried that it might be abnormal. It occurs when the free fluid content of a synovial compartment is minimal (i.e. normal) and significant negative pressures can occur on movement with cracking when soft tissue are sucked into new positions. In pathological synovial structures with increased free fluid cracking is not a feature.

When people report stiffness in muscles and joints they usually mean discomfort on movement, as maybe in DOMS. Joints can also be stiff in the unrelated sense of having limited range of movement due to tissue swelling. The joint moves normally up to a certain point and then stops - the classic case being a rheumatoid patient being unable to hide their fingernails on fist closure. But people tend not to report this as "stiffness", although in RA it goes along with discomfort stiffness.

that's interesting because my hands are having a 'more sore' day today and whilst whether I can hide my fingernails would be down to a question of how hidden to they need to be (the heel of the hand doesn't come up to cover them so whilst they can be properly hidden for the early fingers using the thumb then the last two or so are sort of 'depends how covered they need to be' as they aren't actually hidden)

I have then instinstictively whilst doing this reached to do the old fist that I learned when I was learning Karate - putting the thumb across the outside of fingers and knuckles and not inside (because then if you bunch you;d break your own thumbs). And my fingers and thumb don't really fit naturally ie particularly trying to get my thumb over the first finger doesn't quite work without it hurting and you wouldn't want to punch like that. Anyway I get the sense that it is all a bit sausage-y today and will see whether if on a 'good day' ie one of the days where I eventually notice my hands haven't been aching because I haven't been fiddling with them, whether that all sits better together when I try it.

The issue of my stiff hands has been a conundrum for years. What half frustrates me the most is trying to communicate what I mean by it. I basically spend the entire day manually trying to pull at and click various bits and trying to stretch at them to make them feel more comfortable. It gets sorre right into the flesh between the bones on the back of my palm/hand.

This goes along with my wrist (particularly my right today) clicking away every time I move my hand in different ways and notes/pings depending on the angle I've moved it at.

 

[bobbler]

Ever since ME onset the amount of clicking and cracking in joints increased significantly, most notably in wrists and elbows. my right elbow even started to sometimess freeze when my arm was half extended and i had to crack it out of that position. My toe joints also began to sporadically dislocate.

i do have less soreness and stiffness and the rest now I'm severe bizarrely, which I think is because I don't use them as much. Although when I crash badly all sorts of muscle groups start to burn.

Oh I forgot about this one because I've had it since a child at some age, and definitely pre-ME but my big toes have always had days where they needed to be cracked by curling it then extending the toe 'back' suddenly, sometimes manually or by eg using the floor, and sometimes on really horrible days one might get locked without being able to crack and stuck desperately needing to crack out and boy does that hurt when it happens. Only the big toes though and that is quite a big joint vs the others.

 

[jnmaciuch]

maybe the best way I can describe it is that joints and muscle feel like they’re slightly “styrofoam-y”—when it’s bad in my neck and I move it, I can actually hear a slight crunching sound as if I was crushing styrofoam. It tends to accompany the crackling-feeling.

Does this sound familiar to anyone else? It’s very distinct from soreness or rigidity as if the muscle was contacting.

 

[bobbler]

maybe the best way I can describe it is that joints and muscle feel like they’re “styrofoam-y”—when it’s in my neck and I rotate it, I can actually hear a slight crunching sound as if I was crushing styrofoam. It tends to accompany the crackling-feeling.

Does this sound familiar to anyone else? It’s very distinct from soreness or rigidity as if the muscle was contacting.

mine doesn't crackle and it is more sore and the cracks or pops are I now know not joints (but when it is my wrist it is still hard to realise that when it does a big loud click) but around them and normally in response to a manoevre just as flexing a thumb of little finger or turning wrist or flexing foot out to the side etc. I've had a frozen shoulder for example and I think the big clunks and clicks there aren't technically counted as being 'joint' as something finally eases out

the tissue tends to be soreand if not sore (and there are definite sore bits like front of ankle and today the pad of my thumb) then uncomfortable almost a dull ache but not that either and relieved temporarily by cool sheet etc feel like it might be swollen in some way and then getting in the way of the normal architecture inside of eg foot or hand.


I do get crackles and cracks with my neck but I think that might actually be from crunching it over the years from eg having to sleep and have it supported much more than others needed so basically having lots of weight on it at funny angles. I've actually had eg physios suggest I might have a bit of arthritis in it. But weirdly today whilst it doesn't feel great I just implicitly did the turn of head and whiggles in different ways to test said neck and there is strangely no sound at all. Quite often in the middle of the night I will move to a new position as I desperately try and get comfortable and hear some really worrying long scrapey crunches that do feel like it is bones on bones getting worn that sound like I should have done something 'better' like extending it before moving it or jamming it the other way.... in fact I'd describe the sounds as like when you get a hard piece of gristly bone eg in a mince or meat dish and crunch it with your teeth, except obvioiusly more of it because it is a big crunch of the whole back of the neck

 

[Sean]

Ever since ME onset the amount of clicking and cracking in joints increased significantly,

Me too.

I certainly get the sensation of widespread musculo-skeletal stiffness, as in difficulty moving, particularly when first waking up (which is when balance is also at its worst).

Whether that is actually a mechanical phenomenon or not I don't know.

 

[ChronicallyOverIt]

maybe the best way I can describe it is that joints and muscle feel like they’re slightly “styrofoam-y”—when it’s bad in my neck and I move it, I can actually hear a slight crunching sound as if I was crushing styrofoam. It tends to accompany the crackling-feeling.

Does this sound familiar to anyone else? It’s very distinct from soreness or rigidity as if the muscle was contacting.

Absolutely. One of the first symptoms I got, it started off as a stiff locked neck that would crack really loud in the morning. Now it just cracks super loud and feels crunchy pretty much all the time. It’s something that actually gets worse with my crashes. I’ll wake up and have to crack my neck to unfreeze it. In crashes I’ll have to do this multiple times a day and can feel the pressure build up. I feel like I need to free my neck during the day.

I got X-rays and MRI of it at one point, 2-3 years in, because I was so worried about it and the cracks are so violent.