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Multiple physical symptoms and individual characteristics – A cross-sectional study of the general population, 2020, Rasmussen et al

Discussion in 'Health News and Research unrelated to ME/CFS' started by Andy, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member & Outreach

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    Paywall, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022399919308700
    Sci hub, https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/j.jpsychores.2020.109941
     
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  2. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Wow that's a lot of unmet medical needs. Someone really should do something about this. No wonder the alternative medicine industry is so enormous and thriving. I'm sure insulting over a billion people will go swimmingly over credibility and trust in medical expertise. No possibility of blowback, this time. Unlike every other time. This time it's definitely right. Unlike every other time. "You're sick because you're poor and stupid, and you're probably poor because you're stupid (since you're likely poor because you're sick and you're sick because you're stupid)", is exactly the message you want to communicate as medical professionals in this trying time of the post-truth era, plagued by disinformation and ambiguity.

    The rational reaction from this should be that these people are out of their damn minds and that the BDS construct is complete nonsense. Or people could just go with the magical thinking that always fails, I guess that's another perfectly rational approach to public health.
    All of which are known to be detrimental to health. And, no, it's not the "behavior" that is harmful but the actual doing of those things, the actual inhalation of smoke and the actual physiological impact of extra weight. Although I'm not entirely sure it's worth blaming bodily weight twice over but OK.
    Those tend to be consequences of poor health. Medicine with zero common sense and a complete rejection of Occam's razor looks posititively dumb.
    I love that the basis of this is a self-referencing tautology. It has been somehow decided by some that most chronic symptoms should be asserted to not only have no attributable cause but that there will never, ever, be one. Then turn around and say that the people experiencing those symptoms are delusional by the same people who have decided that they know that no cause will ever be found.

    Literally the process of labeling a box, putting stuff in that box and noting that the stuff in the labeled box was found in the box after having been put there on purpose. This should lead to a failing grade in entry-level courses, it's blatantly unscientific. Seriously this may as well be official: this stuff here, the MUS/BPS/FND thing, is the worst and most mediocre failure in the history of medicine because there simply is no valid justification anymore for this much aggressive willful ignorance. Seriously impressive stuff, there's tough competition to be the worst here and you did it!
     
  3. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Bolding mine.

    Former smoking, really. How long is former? A month? A year? A decade? 25 years?

    I am a former smoker. I decided to see how long I could go without smoking over a quarter of a century ago. I was talking about it with a GP who was curious about how I quit & stayed off 'em. According to her, if you stay off them for a decade or more, the effects are reversed.

    So, some precision please.
     
  4. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The smoking bit reminds me of something I read recently. The language used is annoying (magic) but according to them the science says that lung damage from smoking is reversed over time (as IW points out). So former smoking would seem to be there simply out of the researchers own belief system -- which brings the other things into doubt as to their scientific basis IMO.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51279355
     
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  5. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I saw that too and it happened fast.
     
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  6. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Some the are but I doubt that established emphysema is.
     
  7. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, I think she meant if you haven't already developed a smoking related disease.

    I smoked for 10 years. In at least the last 5 years I had a 20 a day habit and on a rough day that could easily go up as high as 30. She reckoned that once I hit the 10 year mark off the cigs (& presumably not frequenting.smoke filled environments) the effects should be completely reversed.
     
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  8. Sarah94

    Sarah94 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Funny, I thought it was supposed to be us overachievers who developed MUS.
     
  9. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is where IAPT trained psychologists can use their skills. If you are an overachiever they will be able to use their knowledge to see that your ME is due to overachieving. If you are a poorly educated unemployed layabout then they can use their skills to deduce that this is why you have ME. It is all about personalised assessment, nothing to do with those silly old published trials that treated everyone the same. I can assure you this is the case, one of them explained it to me.
     
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  10. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Since nobody is a perfectly average person without any life stressors it is always possible to create a narrative of this or that character flaw or event or behaviour causing psychogenic illness. Or just claim that the effects of the illness are actually its cause (like they do in IBS where they claim that thoughts and fears about IBS causes the illness).
     
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  11. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Mainstream medicine is jealous and is moving on the lucrative alternative turf.
     
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  12. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Um, they say that BDS is commoner in younger women but they arbitrarily excluded anyone over 65.
     
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  13. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Oh, that too. This. And that. And the opposite of both this and that. Schrodinger's patient: overachiever, underachiever and everything in between.

    MUS: where the facts are made up and neither the facts not the patients matter.
     
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