1. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 11th January 2021 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

ME Association: Dr Shepherd provides an update on antibiotic use in M.E. and highlights concerns about quinolones and fluroquinolones

Discussion in 'BioMedical ME/CFS News' started by Eagles, Jul 26, 2018.

  1. Eagles

    Eagles Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    176
    Likes Received:
    2,757
    ME Association: Dr Shepherd provides an update on antibiotic use in M.E. and highlights concerns about quinolones and fluroquinolones

    http://www.meassociation.org.uk/201...-quinolones-and-fluroquinolones-26-july-2018/

    By Dr Charles Shepherd, Hon. Medical Adviser, ME Association.

    In view of some of the confusing and incorrect information about the use of antibiotics in M.E., especially where someone develops an unrelated infection, we have produced some basic information on this subject.

    General considerations

    This information also covers the current concerns relating to the use of one specific group of antibiotics – quinolones and fluroquinolones – and their potential to cause side-effects involving the muscles and tendons.

    Provided antibiotics are used correctly, they are normally a safe and effective way of dealing with infections that require their use.

    And, as infections are an important cause of relapse in ME/CFS, the prompt use of an antibiotic would be entirely appropriate if someone with ME/CFS has an infection that is likely to respond to an antibiotic…
     
    Eagles, Jul 26, 2018
    #1
    Indigophoton, hinterland, zzz and 15 others like this.
  2. Tia

    Tia Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    1,656
    This is really helpful. Thank you Dr Shepard.

    Just wondering - are any of the antimalarials related to this class of antibiotic? I know doxycycline is an antibiotic but don't know if it's related. Probably not - just an idea as I know many get ill after travelling.
     
    Tia, Jul 26, 2018
    #2
    Esther12, Hutan, Inara and 1 other person like this.
  3. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,588
    Likes Received:
    47,540
    Doxycycline is a tetracycline and so is, I believe, quite a different drug to the fluroquinolones.

    It was interesting to see the mention in the MEA article that doxycycline may have immune function benefits. Certainly the first time I took doxycycline as a malaria prophylactic (pre-ME), I felt remarkably well. However, I think that many extended courses of it changed my gut flora for the worse. Whereas previously I had had an 'iron stomach', able to eat dodgy food without problems, over the years I seemed to have much lower tolerance. I have wondered if changed gut flora caused by doxycycline played a role in causing the ME. However, my two children did not have multiple extended doxycycline courses and they became ill with ME at the same time. So, maybe not.

    A couple of years prior to getting ME, I was prescribed a course of ciprofloxacin (one of the fluroquinolones). I remember one incident where I felt really dreadful, quite disoriented and out of it, when I had to drive home from the doctor. I can't say if it was the ciprofloxacin or some fever delirium from the illness, but it was very disconcerting. I also developed tendonitis, before knowing that ciprofloxacin could cause that problem. I think it's a nasty drug and I endorse the MEA's view that this class of drugs should not be used unless all alternatives have been carefully considered.

    I have wondered whether the ciprofloxacin was part of the reason that I got ME. There was a residual effect of muscle weakness and I was never quite well after it. If it was just me who developed ME, I might be pointing a finger at it a lot more strongly. But again, my two children didn't have ciprofloxacin and they developed ME at the same time as me. So I'm inclined to think it was not a key factor.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
    Hutan, Jul 27, 2018
    #3
    Inara, Sly Saint, Indigophoton and 4 others like this.
  4. duncan

    duncan Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    918
    Likes Received:
    3,571
    Floroquinolines and such...

    I think this is a good warning per se, but I am not sure how the proclamation against antibiotics in general plays in. I am not sure how I feel about them, and I am on a shit-load.

    I do know where I am from many of us hold edicts with distrust only surpassed by our contempt for the peeps we don't know who may or may not be behind them, eta,ie, our IMMEDIATE doctors, not those who might advocate differently here.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
    duncan, Jul 27, 2018
    #4
    Melanie likes this.
  5. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes Received:
    9,464
    Location:
    Stanford, CA
    The quinolones are anti-malarials, if that's what you're asking?
     
    JaimeS, Jul 27, 2018
    #5
    NelliePledge likes this.
  6. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    15,368
    Location:
    Cornwall, UK
    What about quinolines, like Clioquinol? I've found reference to taking this in 2007 around the same time as I started the dreaded perindopril (which put me in hospital with low blood salt).
     
    MeSci, Jul 27, 2018
    #6
  7. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes Received:
    9,464
    Location:
    Stanford, CA
    It appears hydroxyquinolines can also have anti-malarial activity, yes: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6775184
     
    JaimeS, Jul 27, 2018
    #7
    MeSci likes this.
  8. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    15,368
    Location:
    Cornwall, UK
    I mean, can they have the same effects on ME patients as quinolones and fluoroquinolones?
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
    MeSci, Jul 27, 2018
    #8
  9. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes Received:
    9,464
    Location:
    Stanford, CA
    JaimeS, Jul 27, 2018
    #9
    adambeyoncelowe and MeSci like this.
  10. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    427
    Likes Received:
    2,389
    @Hutan

    Reading your comment about taking ciprfloxacin allow me to hypothesize that ciprofloxacin may be the cause of your onset of Ilness. Needless to say that certain medications do stress the Liver.

    I do not know if the following are a coincidence but it is useful to know in any case :


    Link : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24352180


    There are mentions of Long term side effects known as Fluoroquinolone-associated Disability (FQAD). I believe that following paper mentions a lot of Topics that we heard before :


    The paper discusses about Pyruvate Dehydrogenase, Oxidative Stress, Krebs Cycle, Mitochondrial Damage, Fenton Reaction and many, many more :


    PTP = Mitochondrial Permeability Transition Pore
    OS = Oxidative Stress



    Interestingly, the paper also discusses about increased calcium :


    This information is also found on @Simon M 's post in Phoenix Rising :


    https://forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...o-multiply-fight-infection.55303/#post-925231


    Perhaps someone knowledgeable could look at the paper ?


    Link : https://www.hindawi.com/journals/omcl/2017/8023935/
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
    mariovitali, Aug 6, 2018
    #10
    Perrier, Inara, Amw66 and 1 other person like this.
  11. Perrier

    Perrier Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    2,136
    Great information. Thanks. Our family member was on Cipro for clostridium Difficile, and then this death-in-life ME set in. Shouldn't drugs like that be prescribed more cautiously, I have to ask.
     
    Perrier, Aug 7, 2018
    #11
    mariovitali and Inara like this.

Share This Page