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James Coyne - A sudden reversal of fortune for the biopsychosocial model of illness

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Sly Saint, Jan 7, 2018.

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  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Following on from Nathalie Wrights article in the Independent.
    "Actually, I think this has been coming for a long time, but it just might have happened this morning in the UK online newspaper, The Independent. The public conversation has shifted about the biopsychosocial model of myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME; formerly known as chronic fatigue syndrome) in ways that will not be readily reversed."

    https://jcoynester.wordpress.com/author/jcoynester/
     
  2. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    How very rude. I wonder if, outside, he untethered his horse and rode off into the sunset.
     
  3. Melanie

    Melanie Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I like the work this man has done for ME.
     
    petrichor and Bluesky like this.
  4. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    It's British psychaitrists he doesn't like, so our interests as M.E. sufferers sometimes coincide with his.

    But if you ever criticize a North American psychiatrist (or Canadian social historian with an interest in psychosomatic medicine actually) such as Edward Shorter who's responsible for such offensive drivel as this

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...c-fatigue-in-the-context-the-history-medicine

    and as bad as anything the UK BPS cult has to offer, or Brian Walitt, another psychosomatic proponent who's as batshit as they come, you find out rather quickly how much of a friend James Coyne is to M.E. sufferers.

    His above blog adds nothing to the original article apart from signposting it, adding a couple of comments of his own and an anecdote about being rude to two ladies. Forgive me for being less than fulsome in my praise.
     
  5. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think James has been helpful but I also think this is a point that should not be overlooked. James has a subheading 'the Americans have moved on'. Jen talks of differences across the pond. I think this is unhelpful. There are at least as big problems in the US as in the UK for ME/CFS sufferers. A lot of the 'treatments' offered in the US are as bogus as CBT. I doubt social support is that much more generous in the US and after all there is no proven treatment so nobody is denying the right treatment to PWME. Manipulating them into undergoing useless treatments is intolerable, but so is emptying their wallets to no avail. Nobody has the high ground here.

    Except the patients.
     
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  6. Valentijn

    Valentijn Guest

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    The high ground is where we're supposed to sit while kicking the bastards in the 'nads, right? :emoji_angel:
     
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  7. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Indeed, higher ground means a few people defied the consensus that researching ME/CFS would ruin their careers in some cases because they are personally affected by it.
    The NIH has much to answer for, stealing money for many years appropriated to ME/CFS research for a start...
     
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  8. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    Well we did have until this:

    :emoji_expressionless:

    @Valentijn you have obviously never kicked a bastard in the 'nads before. Easiest to take a swing from below.
     
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  9. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Interesting blog by David Healy about the Maddox prize:
    "
    In 2017 the Sense about Science (SAS) John Maddox (JM) Prize was awarded to to Riko Muranaka for her efforts to counter apparent misinformation about the HPV vaccine.

    MedWatcher Japan are the group who have helped raise the profile of concerns about the HPV vaccine in Japan. When it comes to tackling the adverse effects of treatments, there is no more impressive group in the world and in response to their arguments – see Here – the Japanese government has reconsidered its position.

    Key to an award of an SAS Prize is that Muranaka should have been threatened, and intimidated for her brave work standing up for truth. I asked some MedWatcher contacts what the score was. They said yep she’s saying she has been threatened but there is nothing much that can be done about it, as she would just use any complaints or even debate as evidence of persecution.

    What’s going on?"

    "
    2012

    Simon Wessely and Fang Shi-min are the two winners of the inaugural JM Prize for Standing up for Science

    Fang Shi-min, a freelance science journalist based in Beijing, was awarded the Prize for his bravery and determination in standing up to threats to his life to uncover clinics promoting unproven treatments, and to bring a wide public readership to the importance of looking for evidence.

    Simon Wessely, Professor of Psychological Medicine at King’s College London, was awarded the Prize for his ambition and courage in the field of ME (chronic fatigue syndrome) and Gulf War syndrome, and the way he has dealt bravely with intimidation and harassment when speaking about his work and that of colleagues.

    Given his very close links to SAS and SMC, the award of an SAS Prize to SW smacks of SAS awarding the Prize to itself.

    That said, it’s easy to get on with SW. I’ve been to his house and he to mine. There are certain things you don’t challenge acquaintances on. In this case one of those things was his belief that he’d had death threats and in general had had a hard time from people with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome who didn’t like his research. Long before this SAS prize came on the radar, he had assiduously been peddling this line, as the researchers working on CFS in general do.

    One of the other things I didn’t challenge him on was James Coyne who SW thought was marvellous.

    I’d first come across JC when the University of Toronto – and perhaps others – appeared to have outsourced the defending of their fragile little selves against the juggernaut that was Healy – after they’d fired me – to JC, who didn’t just say what U of T or others might have wanted to say but went wildly beyond that without his having ever met me or liaised with me in any shape or form whatsoever.

    JC is a notable academic thug, a bully who picks on women in particular. Some people find him very intimidating in print but if you confront him he becomes your new best friend in a rather wheedling kind of way. See Rolf Harris and James Coyne"

    https://davidhealy.org/outsourcing-fascism/
     
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  10. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Or use your knee
     
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  11. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Wouldn't that depend on their perceived position, e.g. which way up they were.
     
  12. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, I have no idea who to believe as Healy, Coyne, Wessely et al. denigrate each other.

    The trouble with prizes for standing up for science is that what one side of the argument sees as courage and standing up for the 'truth' in the face of harassment, the other side sees as pig headed promotion of 'untruth' in the face of justified critique.
     
  13. Bluesky

    Bluesky Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    i like his work too. at school some were called spirited young ladies. i dont know how that translates to men but he sure has a fire in his belly to push for change for us.

    sometimes unusual results demand unusual methods.

    think james comes under the heading of the above. we have been so gaslighted by the shinks lies miliatant we are cowered at times. james is passionate about change. he has taken blows from plos one yet defiantly pushes on challenging them.
     
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  14. Bluesky

    Bluesky Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    i guess as in any work place you meet the same people and don't always agree with them, but in other areas over the years they will have known each other.

    james was certainly approached by sw to stop and side with him. but james told him no. james takes the high road. no matter what the science must be open and honest and do no harm.
     
  15. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    You can actually make a perpetual motion machine by getting two bastards to fight each other. They will grab onto each other and try and knee each other in the 'nads, whilst simultaneously trying to avoid getting kneed in the 'nads. If they are both using their right knee, they will end up hopping on their respective left feet and spinning in a counter-clockwise direction together. If they are both using their left knee, they will spin clockwise together.

    I once saw this happen on a rare occasion when two school bullies decided to fight each other. Being bullies neither of them knew how to fight so went straight for a knee in the nads at the same time, and immediately started spinning around whilst hanging on to each other. The maths teacher turned up and just watched with the rest of us until they ran out of steam (after all, watching two supposed tough guys walzing was free entertainment), then calmly told them to go and wait for him outside the staff room, which they sheepishly did.
     
  16. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I thoght that the only interesting thing about that Healy blog was how it illustrates the importance of persona connections and relationships in these sorts of things.
     
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  17. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    He's done a similar thing with Anne Ortregens suicide post:
    "Anne Örtegren has circulating in the patient community a farewell post to follow her recent death, which she chose over further suffering."
    https://mindthebrain.blog/author/jcoynester/
     
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  18. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There is value is spreading awareness of Wrights piece amongst those who might otherwise have missed it.
     
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  19. petrichor

    petrichor Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I appreciate him raising awareness of the article, I think it's a good run down of the article, and it has a interesting anecdote at the end.
     

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