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Is Long Covid a type of ME/CFS? Discussion thread

Discussion in 'Possible causes and predisposing factor discussion' started by Hutan, Feb 23, 2022.

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  1. ahimsa

    ahimsa Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Moved post

    Editorial in The Michigan Daily:
    Michigan Medicine needs to address post-viral illness

    https://www.michigandaily.com/opinion/michigan-medicine-needs-to-address-post-viral-illness/

    Very good op-ed piece, includes discussion of both ME/CFS and Long Covid.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2022
    ahimsa, Mar 19, 2022
    #21
    RedFox, Michelle, nick2155 and 12 others like this.
  2. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Are there any studies yet to support a statement that Covid-19 can trigger the onset of ME/CFS?
     
    Hutan, May 27, 2022
    #22
    livinglighter, alktipping, Midnattsol and 3 others like this.
  3. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Here's the best answer I have found to my question:
    Preprint: Chronic COVID-19 Syndrome and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) following the first pandemic wave in Germany.., Kedor et al, 2021
    This is a small study and the definition of PEM is not clear, but it found that 41 out of 42 participants had PEM, and around half met the criteria of the CCC.

    And this paper by Angus Mackay (which has parts I disagree with) has a good analysis of the evidence for some LC being ME/CFS in 2021
    A Paradigm for Post-Covid-19 Fatigue Syndrome Analogous to ME/CFS, 2021, Mackay

    It's surprising how limited the evidence is, even half way through 2022.
     
    Hutan, May 27, 2022
    #23
    RedFox, ahimsa, alktipping and 8 others like this.
  4. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Hutan, May 27, 2022
    #24
    ahimsa, alktipping, Midnattsol and 4 others like this.
  5. Wyva

    Wyva Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There was also this one:Use of Cardiopulmonary Stress Testing for Patients With Unexplained Dyspnea Post–Coronavirus Disease, 2021, Mancini et al
    It used Fukuda though.

    Then there was this one relatively early on, where the vast majority experienced PEM. It was an online survey though: Characterizing Long COVID in an International Cohort: 7 Months of Symptoms and Their Impact, 2020, Hannah Davis et al

    This one doesn't seem to have its own thread, but it was published in Science and was written by Nath and another author. It is about all kinds of neurological manifestations, not just long covid but ME/CFS is mentioned as probably something of similar pathomechanism:
    Nervous system consequences of COVID-19

    --

    Not studies but when I write messages to doctors, I also mention that when the WHO created the case definition of post-covid conditions, then a voting happened when 70% was necessary for a symptom to get included in the case definition (it was a bit more complicated, whoever wants to check it can do so in the link). PEM got 67% and that's how close we got to the WHO LC case definition becoming almost identical to the more recent ME/CFS diagnostic criteria. WHO: A clinical case definition of post COVID-19 condition by a Delphi consensus

    I also mention the CDC's interim guidance for PASC, which mentions ME/CFS and PEM and energy management: USA: Centers for Disease Control (CDC) - Post Covid Conditions: Interim Guidance, June 2021
     
    Wyva, May 27, 2022
    #25
    Snow Leopard, alktipping, NelliePledge and 11 others like this.
  6. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Hutan, May 27, 2022
    #26
    alktipping, Midnattsol, janice and 2 others like this.
  7. Wyva

    Wyva Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Wyva, May 27, 2022
    #27
    Snow Leopard, alktipping, Midnattsol and 3 others like this.
  8. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    https://www.cdc.gov/me-cfs/pdfs/cfs-covid-presentation-508.pdf

    set of slides
    Post Covid-19 ME/CFS
    Hector Bonilla, MD
    Associated Professor IM/ID, Stanford University

    I'm sure the presentation and the specific study mentioned has been posted about on the forum, but parking this table here. Post-Covid Stanford cohort - 94 people, assessed against the IOM criteria

    Gender split is not particularly marked.
    Screen Shot 2022-06-07 at 2.48.52 pm.png
     
    Hutan, Jun 7, 2022
    #28
    ahimsa, Dolphin, Wyva and 1 other person like this.
  9. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2023
    SNT Gatchaman, Aug 12, 2022
    #29
  10. Laurie P

    Laurie P Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    How Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is helping doctors understand long COVID

    https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2022/1...rome-is-helping-doctors-understand-long-covid
     
    Laurie P, Oct 6, 2022
    #30
    RedFox, Starlight, Trish and 5 others like this.
  11. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2022
    Amw66, Oct 26, 2022
    #31
    Simon M, Art Vandelay, obeat and 2 others like this.
  12. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Posts about a talk by Nath in March 2022 have been moved to the NIH thread.
     
    Trish, Dec 26, 2022
    #32
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