Induced coma

[Amy101]

The body isn’t at complete rest in a coma, there is a lot going on related to adverse effects and the body coping with coma. Respiratory drive is often lost which means a patient would need mechanical ventilation.

Gut motility is very much reduced which can cause issues.

Hypotension usually means the patient will need drugs to maintain cerebral perfusion pressure.

Hypokalemia or low potassium often results which can cause a whole cascade of events — heart issues etc.

The heart can be adversely affected to the point of heart failure.

Bed sores of course.

A patient would need a catheter which increases the risk of bladder and kidney infection.

The brain may be asleep but the body is fighting to maintain homeostasis. And there is also the risks of having a high level of barbiturates in your system constantly. This is why most medically induced coma’s last a few weeks. Six months is rare and one year is unheard of.

I have read reports of people in medically induced comas saying their brain is still registering the surroundings at times and they experience the coma as one long never ending dream.




The only automated monitoring is vital signs, brain waves and intercranial pressure. A person in a medically induced coma is usually kept in an intensive care unit and requires a lot of one to one care. A comatose patient requires constant turning about every three hours, catheter bags have to emptied, bloodwork is required very often, nutrition provided usually through a feeding tube, diapers changed, bed baths ... . Care for a coma patient runs about 2,000 to 4,000 dollars per day if in an ICU.

You don’t know the medical details of said person but I’m just repeating what we know of them and what they’re going through. So it’s not unheard of because it’s happening in what they said. In addition, many of those things are already occurring if you are Severe/Very Severe so I suppose it’s up to the person whether they want to take the risk and if they’re confident with their medical team.

 

[Kelly M.]

Me and my mum know someone abroad who is currently in an induced coma for the total length of a year (the person has been in it for numerous months now, don’t want to put any further details so as not to possibly highlight the person or hospital). It makes perfect sense to us that this would massively help with ME symptoms as your body is at complete rest. The person is very hopeful this will massively help and we have our fingers crossed for them

Note - I think it’s a year. It may be a shorter length of time but they gave the impression of a year and they have been in it numerous months already as mentioned above

You don’t know the medical details of said person but I’m just repeating what we know of them and what they’re going through. So it’s not unheard of because it’s happening in what they said. In addition, many of those things are already occurring if you are Severe/Very Severe so I suppose it’s up to the person whether they want to take the risk and if they’re confident with their medical team.

You are right, I do not know the medical details of said person. I do know that medically induced coma’s are a last resort thing and are done if a person is at high risk of severe brain injury — like from extreme inflammation from injury, bullet wounds, in certain cases of epilepsy. I also know that the length of medically induced comas are just for a few weeks and length is down to severity etc.

Forgive my scepticism but why would any doctor agree to put a person in a medically induced coma for a year. And why a year? If the cost is at minimum 2000 dollars a day — a year would cost 730,000 dollars — that is a lot of money and if insurance would cover it how would they be convinced that it is a medically necessary procedure for a patient with ME, unless they were suffering some kind of severe brain injury.

You say that ‘these things are already occurring’ — by that do you mean more patients have been put into comas to relieve their symptoms? I can’t find any information on this at all. Could you give further details. Putting a person in a medically induced coma does not just come down to choice and confidence in their medical team. I believe there would be ethical and legal considerations the hospital would have to make and I really don’t think any competent doctor would agree to put a patient in a coma for a year.

 

[Amy101]

You are right, I do not know the medical details of said person. I do know that medically induced coma’s are a last resort thing and are done if a person is at high risk of severe brain injury — like from extreme inflammation from injury, bullet wounds, in certain cases of epilepsy. I also know that the length of medically induced comas are just for a few weeks and length is down to severity etc.

Forgive my scepticism but why would any doctor agree to put a person in a medically induced coma for a year. And why a year? If the cost is at minimum 2000 dollars a day — a year would cost 730,000 dollars — that is a lot of money and if insurance would cover it how would they be convinced that it is a medically necessary procedure for a patient with ME, unless they were suffering some kind of severe brain injury.

You say that ‘these things are already occurring’ — by that do you mean more patients have been put into comas to relieve their symptoms? I can’t find any information on this at all. Could you give further details. Putting a person in a medically induced coma does not just come down to choice and confidence in their medical team. I believe there would be ethical and legal considerations the hospital would have to make and I really don’t think any competent doctor would agree to put a patient in a coma for a year.

You’ve misunderstood what I was referring to there. I meant the things like being catheterised, a feeding tube etc are already occurring if you are Severe/Very Severe.

I’m not giving further details on this specific case because I don’t want to risk identifying the person or the hospital in anyway. I’ve stated what I feel comfortable doing so already. All I stated was a person we know is in one, has been for months and that it is abroad. I feel that you saying it is unwise and no competent doctor would do it, is your personal opinion, this person and their team felt otherwise. I think that’s highly insulting to them when in reality, they understand a lot more about this specific case I am referring to. I know if Merryn asked for this and if she was able to receive it, we would have respected her wishes if that’s what she wanted and would have been hopeful it would've helped as it would be something only resorted to for the most severe. Please don’t just assume that because you don’t believe that it is right, or accurate, that is so in every case.

I’m not saying anything more on this as I’ve said all I can really say and don’t want to say more. If you still are sceptical then that’s fine, but please remember that this is actually happening to someone and it’s not right to call their medical team incompetent when you do not know the specifics of the case.

For anybody else who may be sceptical: I have nothing to gain by having posted this, just it was relevant to the original discussion and this is just now causing further stress for both myself and my mother who is aware of whatever I post, through the fact we feel there is a need to defend what I have said, and defend the person who is undergoing an induced coma and their medical team. All that was posted was we know someone who is in one abroad and they hope it will help ME symptoms. We personally feel it will. I do not feel it is appropriate to criticise a medical team by basically calling them incompetent, and basically saying another ME sufferer’s decision was unwise.

 

[TigerLilea]

All that was posted was we know someone who is in one abroad and they hope it will help ME symptoms. We personally feel it will. I do not feel it is appropriate to criticise a medical team by basically calling them incompetent, and basically saying another ME sufferer’s decision was unwise.

I'm just curious as to whether this person lives abroad, or did they have to go abroad to find a doctor and hospital that was willing to do this? I couldn't see any Canadian hospital agreeing to this unless it was a life or death situation.

 

[Amy101]

I'm just curious as to whether this person lives abroad, or did they have to go abroad to find a doctor and hospital that was willing to do this? I couldn't see any Canadian hospital agreeing to this unless it was a life or death situation.

They live abroad and live in the country where this is happening. This is also someone we knew prior to Merryn having ME so it’s not someone who is particularly active in the ME community

 

[svetoslav80]

Extending the topic a little, I've lately been adopting lots of libertarian ideas, and so I and think, since it's your own life, it must be your decision what you do with, even if you act stupid and die. As long as you can afford to pay of course.

 

[Kelly M.]

You’ve misunderstood what I was referring to there. I meant the things like being catheterised, a feeding tube etc are already occurring if you are Severe/Very Severe.

I’m not giving further details on this specific case because I don’t want to risk identifying the person or the hospital in anyway. I’ve stated what I feel comfortable doing so already. All I stated was a person we know is in one, has been for months and that it is abroad. I feel that you saying it is unwise and no competent doctor would do it, is your personal opinion, this person and their team felt otherwise. I think that’s highly insulting to them when in reality, they understand a lot more about this specific case I am referring to. I know if Merryn asked for this and if she was able to receive it, we would have respected her wishes if that’s what she wanted and would have been hopeful it would've helped as it would be something only resorted to for the most severe. Please don’t just assume that because you don’t believe that it is right, or accurate, that is so in every case.

I’m not saying anything more on this as I’ve said all I can really say and don’t want to say more. If you still are sceptical then that’s fine, but please remember that this is actually happening to someone and it’s not right to call their medical team incompetent when you do not know the specifics of the case.

For anybody else who may be sceptical: I have nothing to gain by having posted this, just it was relevant to the original discussion and this is just now causing further stress for both myself and my mother who is aware of whatever I post, through the fact we feel there is a need to defend what I have said, and defend the person who is undergoing an induced coma and their medical team. All that was posted was we know someone who is in one abroad and they hope it will help ME symptoms. We personally feel it will. I do not feel it is appropriate to criticise a medical team by basically calling them incompetent, and basically saying another ME sufferer’s decision was unwise.

I am sorry that you are stressed out by what I said but being a scientific forum, I am trying to discuss the medical reasons to induce a coma, side effects and so on related to ME. The topic is about inducing comas in ME patients and I was responding to that. As I already stated I do not know the specifics of the medical problems that led to the person you know having a coma induced. My comments are therefore not about them. I am speaking generically and I think what I have said is quite true — that a competent doctor would not induce a coma unless warranted and that there are many things to consider when making such a decision including some very dangerous side-effects. Yes, it’s all my personal opinion but this opinion comes from medical facts and knowledge and I was trying to add to the topic. Again, I didn’t mean to stress you out.

 

[Amy101]

I am sorry that you are stressed out by what I said but being a scientific forum, I am trying to discuss the medical reasons to induce a coma, side effects and so on related to ME. The topic is about inducing comas in ME patients and I was responding to that. As I already stated I do not know the specifics of the medical problems that led to the person you know having a coma induced. My comments are therefore not about them. I am speaking generically and I think what I have said is quite true — that a competent doctor would not induce a coma unless warranted and that there are many things to consider when making such a decision including some very dangerous side-effects. Yes, it’s all my personal opinion but this opinion comes from medical facts and knowledge and I was trying to add to the topic. Again, I didn’t mean to stress you out.

I appreciate what you are saying and a scientific forum should include both sides of an argument, but if your comments are not about said person mentioned by myself or my actual comments, then please don’t reply to my comments directly as that gives the impression that it is a direct response to what I have written. All I have referred to in this forum thread is one person’s case who we know personally and as you agree, you do not know the medical details of this person so I feel there is no need for a further discussion between us within this thread as we are both discussing separate things.

 

[ukxmrv]

Aggressive sleep therapy, using drug induced sleep, has been tried for ME. I think it was at Charing Cross Hospital in the UK, some decades ago. This might or might not have been intense enough to qualify as a coma, where the brain becomes completely unresponsive to external stimuli.

You've a good memory Alex. There was a Cardiologist at Charing Cross offering deep sleep therapy at his private clinic in London. I saw him there and he tried to convince me to try this. It was this chap

http://www.duncancampbell.org/content/preying-hope

There's been quite a history of it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_sleep_therapy

I met survivors of the London Nixon sleep treatment for ME and all their experiences were terrible.