How does pain influence the outcome of CBT in patients with CFS/ME?, Kvam, 2021 (Master thesis)

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic research - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Midnattsol, Jan 13, 2023.

  1. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

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    A master thesis on ME from 2021 at NTNU, I think the patients are from Copernio rehab centre:

    https://twitter.com/user/status/1613561271378448384


    Translation of the text in the image (reformatted by me):
    The patients are separated into four subgroups, based on a screening of individual needs and goals. These subgroups are as follows: Avoidant, illness focused, achievement-oriented and confused identity.

    Those that are categorised as avoidant can have avoidance behavior in social situations, where the CFS/ME diagnosis is related to the distancing to others. Treatment in the avoidant group will focus on teaching the patients to take care of their own needs. This is done by showing the patients how they can relate to others in a good way, without getting a bad conscience.

    Those in the illness focused group can have a tendency to be afraid of symptoms, where they avoid all activity that cause a worsening of symptoms. Treatment of those in this group will be focused on testing catastrophizing thoughts against reality, and challenge thoughts with the help of behavior experiments and different cognitive questioning techniques.

    Those in the achievement-oriented group, that also can be categorised as dutiful/perfectionist is dominated by those with high standards of quality. The treatment is to gradually build up activity while teaching the patient cognitive techniques to lower the nervous' system autonomous activation before, during and after physical and mental effort.

    The last group that is categorised as having a confused identity can contain individuals that have been young, promising athletes that are no longer able to perform. They can ask themselves questions as "who am I now" because they have lost their role or identity as as the physically strong and active individual they were before illness struck. Treatment for this group is focused on acknowledging ones own needs, like becoming better at separating different feelings that arise in different social situations, and making the patients understand why unmet needs can cause different feelings

    In hindsight I should have made the English more readable, but I am angry at reading this and might have wanted to keep an essence of bad Norwegian in the translation.. ;)
     
  2. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

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    The whole thesis can be found here: https://ntnuopen.ntnu.no/ntnu-xmlui/handle/11250/2776122

    English translation of the abstract:
    Many patients with CFS/ME have trouble with chronic pain. Still Nijs et al (2012) found that clinicians often ignore the patients' pain symptoms, even if pain is one of the central fatigue symptoms in CFS/ME. In a subgroup of Norwegian patients (N=236) the effect of cognitive behaviour therapy in CFS/ME patients that experience pain was examined.

    The master thesis is focused on examining the treatment success of CBT as well as a short CBT after and one year after treatment end, where patients' self-reported general health status will be used as outcome.

    I found partial support for my expectation that pain was negatively associated with the outcome of cognitive behavior therapy. In the primary analyses both treatment methods were analysed, and showed that pain was non-significant after treatment. On the other hand pain was significant one year after treatment, which means the results must be interpreted with caution. Change in pain showed a stronger association with general health, with significant values both after and one year after treatment. There were interactions between pain and treatment methods, and between change in pain and general health. This led to individual analyses of short CBT and CBT. The results of the individual analyses showed differences in how pain influences different forms of cognitive behavior therapy. I found significant associations between pain and general health in short-CBT, but not CBT. On the other hand an association between change in pain and general health was significant in CBT, but only partially so with short-CBT.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2023
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  3. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Chronic illness is not the ideal moment to work on becoming a better person. I would argue that this idea has medieval christian origins and the enthusiasm for therapy targeted at the group of chronically ill people for the purpose of treating real or imaginary personality defects is simply a continuation of that old idea. It's done in the belief that the illness is the consequence of sinful behaviour and can be treated by adopting morally good behaviour. But in most cases it doesn't work that way. The enthusiasm for therapy in ME/CFS has more to do with the difficulty of patients to resist social pressure and prejudices than behaviour having anything to do with the onset or continuation of the illness.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2023
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  4. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    What century is this? Good grief the mediocrity of this pseudoscience. Even theology is less repetitive than this and they usually have only one book but even that one book usually has more substance and ideas than the mindlessness of the conversion disorder myth.
     
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  5. Charles B.

    Charles B. Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The evidentiary double standard is astounding. Those proffering biomedical explanations are expected to outline consistent pathological findings, but the BPS crowd just strings together unfalsifiable nonsense. How do you empirically measure any of this?

    You’re just generating meaningless labels. I’m going to place BPS researchers into four sub-groups:

    (1) True believers; religious zealots who subscribe to this pseudo-science without indulging in a scintilla of critical thought

    (2) Ruthless careerists; those who see pseudoscience and medicine’s blind spots as an opportunity for personal advancement

    (3) Useful idiots; those who are dutiful underlings of more senior researchers and clinicians from buckets 1 and 2

    (4) Credentialism Cronies; those who couldn’t imagine that anyone with an inkling of eminence could ever be wrong about anything
     
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  6. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    The attitude to patients that seems to underlie that categorisation into 4 groups seems to me to be ridiculously simplistic and breathtakingly arrogant.

    How can they possibly know what is best for an individual on the basis probably of a batch of questionnaires to determine which of these imaginary categories we belong to? Humans and their lives are much more complex than that, let alone when we have chronic illness to cope with.

    Why not just listen to the patient with no preconceptions, and help the patient work out for themselves what they need help with - and it's quite likely to be help with getting appropriate medical care and practical support, not messing with their heads.

    I see the title is:
    How does pain influence the outcome of CBT in patients with CFS/ME?
    Can any of our Norwegians give us a clue what answer the writer comes up with in their thesis.
     
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  7. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

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    The conclusion in the thesis is that change in pain levels is the largest contributing factor to patients reporting improved general health one year after CBT. The association between pain and general health was apparently only visible for those that had "short CBT", which is a flavor of CBT developed by the supervisor on the thesis (and I think it is as simple as it being of shorter duration, why use 14 weeks on a patients when eight will do). The example used for short-CBT for pwME was a quicker gradual increase in activity levels back to "normal" than what is used in general CBT.

    The CBT included self-esteem boosting advice to help patients regain control over their daily lives, such as recommending short walks in the morning and evening and "slowly increase the challenges" :facepalm:

    I am loving that the first reason for why subjective general health was chosen as the outcome is "it is one outcome that has shown to be positively affected by short CBT and CBT" :rofl:
     
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  8. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    In circumstances when you have little choice about undergoing CBT there’s definitely one positive about the concept of short CBT.

    On IAPT I was given the opportunity of finishing after 6 sessions rather than 8 - which wasn’t something I hesitated over :whistle:
     
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  9. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    The relief of not having to attend any more gaslighting CBT gives a temporary boost to one's mood I guess.
     
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  10. Keela Too

    Keela Too Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    A longer CBT course might give patients time to realise that the therapy isn’t actually helping.

    Also, for a short term CBT course, patients may still be just below their “over threshold” point. Perhaps having used up all their buffer zone in the short timescale, and having made all the possible compensations to the rest of their life to achieve the prescribed increases.

    It’ll then just take one unexpected life event to push a patient out of their safe envelope and into a crash that could have long term implications.

    Obviously the longer a CBT course runs, the more likely this is to happen within the time frame of the course.

    Or did they control for that at all by taking their end measures at the same time point after CBT started? Eg 6 months after start, rather than at the respective course end points?
     
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  11. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    A shorter course also means it is easier for participants to cut back on other daily living activities in order to balance their energy budgets.

    In retrospect whenever I tried new treatments, when I was in the ‘try all and every option to get better’ phase, I stopped doing other things to fit it in, and friends/family or work were happy to accommodate or support in the short term. In the short term this produced the illusion of improvement, until the things put off become more pressing or others decided it was time for me to do more as I should be getting better now.
     
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  12. Keela Too

    Keela Too Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    As an interesting spin off from my post above, it might be interesting to know at what time point after an intervention starts a patient is most likely to start to report issues with the intervention?

    I don’t really want to say “crashes”, or even “worsening” for this - perhaps it would be useful to find out the time point that patients most often ask to pause increases or reduce activity levels?

    I have a sneaky suspicion that this info might be available somewhere, but that it is used to design trials that take endpoints before this stage rather than using it in a way that might be useful to patients.

    I also wonder if the “first reduce then increase very gradually” type of message is there so that the time period of treatments can seem like treatment is being usefully sustained longer?

    I wish it were easier to be confident that researchers all had patients best interests at heart.
     
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