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High Prevalence of Perineural Cysts in Patients with Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Hulens et al, 2020

Discussion in 'ME/CFS research' started by John Mac, Dec 2, 2020.

  1. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    https://academic.oup.com/painmedicine/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/pm/pnaa410/6015822
     
  2. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Louie41, alktipping and Alton like this.
  3. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don't think adds up:

    This observation supports the hypothesis that STCs, FM, and CFS may share the same pathophysiological mechanism, i.e., moderately increased cerebrospinal fluid pressure, causing irritation of neurons and axons in dorsal root ganglia.

    No it doesn't. The cysts occur mostly in the sacral roots as I understand it. So cysts do not explain 95% of the features of FM or CFS - in arms, head, gut, etc.. If they do not explain 95% they probably do not explain 100%. I doubt that the cysts have much to do with increased pressure anyway. They are probably a local stretch phenomenon - a bit like crowsfeet round the eyes or housemaid's knee.

    This looks like another advert for quack interventions I am afraid.
     
  4. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks @Jonathan Edwards seemed (to me) to be an interesting hypothesis since my wife has syringomyelia (voids in the spinal column caused by excess pressure) and one of our children has severe (i.e. disabling) fatigue.
    Probably any theory which is attractive/resonates should be treated with caution - How to Make the World Add Up (Tim Harford) - Beware of your emotions [https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000q3d5]
     
  5. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don't know what to make of this, the fact that they were only found in 39% of patients suggests this isn't the cause we're looking for. But it could be an epiphenomena.

    The typical cause is injury or age, but any increased incidence may reflect impaired healing in the patient group.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarlov_cyst
    The Mayo clinic claims hat Tarlov cysts are unusual and hence cannot be a major cause of lower back pain. But this argument seems circular, since it is not often looked for in back pain paitients.

    I guess it is possible that people suffering from these cysts may be misdiagnosed, particularly with Fibromyalgia (since the predominant symptom is pain) but I think any misdiagnosis of ME or CFS would be the result of well, misapplying the criteria... CFS is not a pain condition, so...
    Keeping that in mind, the patients were recruited from a Leuven outpatient clinic and hence there are significant participation biases. Mean age of the patients was 48 years old, and 91% were women.

    The authors speculate about the association:
    These mechanisms remain hypothetical. (though notably, they state "central sensitization still lacks scientific confirmation", I wonder if they had to add the suggestion of central sensitisation to please reviewers)
    I do find the axonal mechanical sensitivity discussion intriguing in itself. However the authors seem to insist that the primary problem is likely due to increased cerebrospinal fluid pressure.

    I did not know that this is another cause of foot-drop (a symptom that I have experienced as part of AFM.)
    This was the cited study that noted the treatment of 213 patients with Symptomatic Tarlov Cysts:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4752851/
     
    Hutan, alktipping, Michelle and 4 others like this.
  6. Tom Kindlon

    Tom Kindlon Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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