1. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 26th July 2021 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Contribute to feedback on the CDC Evidence Review, for more details click here
    Dismiss Notice

HealthWatchUK: It is not only drugs and devices that can harm, 2021, Struthers

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS News' started by Caroline Struthers, Jan 22, 2021.

  1. Caroline Struthers

    Caroline Struthers Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    5,715
    Location:
    Oxford UK
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2021
  2. MEMarge

    MEMarge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,121
    Likes Received:
    12,901
  3. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,328
    Likes Received:
    99,802
  4. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    33,773
    Likes Received:
    160,899
    Location:
    UK
    alktipping, Dolphin, Kitty and 8 others like this.
  5. Robert 1973

    Robert 1973 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    827
    Likes Received:
    11,241
    Location:
    UK
    alktipping, Dolphin, Kitty and 8 others like this.
  6. Daisymay

    Daisymay Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    607
    Likes Received:
    6,478
    Yes really excellent, thank you so much
     
    alktipping, Dolphin, Kitty and 4 others like this.
  7. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,568
    Likes Received:
    21,936
    alktipping, Dolphin, Kitty and 3 others like this.
  8. Caroline Struthers

    Caroline Struthers Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    5,715
    Location:
    Oxford UK
    It wasn't even my idea to call it that. I think I had been a bit more statement-ey about it, and the newsletter editors were trying to "soften" my tone - LOL
     
  9. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    6,820
    Likes Received:
    55,183
    Location:
    Canada
    It would have been a bit too obvious to call it the POTEMKIN trial but frankly it doesn't make much of a difference. Of course it 100% was a show trial. NICE had put into practice the very same treatment model the very same year PACE started, it would have embarrassed too many people had it failed. And so they cheated and the system failed because the promises were political.

    Even the Scopes trial had more science to it and was less politicized.
     
    alktipping, Dolphin, Kitty and 3 others like this.
  10. Michiel Tack

    Michiel Tack Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,510
    Likes Received:
    24,278
    Location:
    Belgium
  11. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,137
    Likes Received:
    48,191
    Location:
    UK West Midlands
  12. Caroline Struthers

    Caroline Struthers Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    5,715
    Location:
    Oxford UK
    Annoyingly I realise I (or maybe the editors??) removed a paragraph (in italics below) about the new NICE guidelines during editing process....but the reference is still there in the final piece - I might see if I can get the paragraph reinstated.

    Thankfully, NICE updated draft guidelines for ME are now out for consultation [20]. The new draft has removed the recommendations for GET and CBT, having finally recognised the weaknesses of the evidence underpinning the previous recommendations, and acknowledged the strength of the evidence of harm [16, 17].
     
  13. MEMarge

    MEMarge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,121
    Likes Received:
    12,901
    The consultation period has now ended (22 Dec) and the Committee are now finalising the Guideline, presumably in response to the comments.
    I realise the process may well have been ongoing when you submitted the piece.

    Date for release of GDL is 21 April.
     
  14. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    7,009
    Likes Received:
    47,842
    Excellent article.
    A very simple example for doubters, would be if people with early symptoms of cancer were referred not to a cancer clinic, but to a CBT clinic, and subsequently "re-educated" to believe their worries about their symptoms were groundless, and to ignore them; they would feel on top of the world for a little while. By the time it became clear this "therapy" was deeply flawed, significant harm would have been inflicted on the patient, given the loss of crucial early investigations and treatment.

    Although the above is obviously extreme and (hopefully!) unlikely, it nonetheless illustrates how serious physical harms could result if a condition is presumed to only need psychological / behavioural interventions, based on very poor quality "evidence". It sets an easily understood precedent as a basis for further discussion.

    It can sometimes be useful to present detractors with a simple irrefutable example, that they simply cannot deny without showing their own stupidity. Once they acknowledge the validity of that example it then becomes much harder for them refute other similar, but less obvious examples.
     
    alktipping, Dolphin, MEMarge and 5 others like this.
  15. Caroline Struthers

    Caroline Struthers Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    5,715
    Location:
    Oxford UK
    Yes. very true. I was given a deadline of end of November to finish the article, so was expecting it to be published before the end of the consultation.
     
    alktipping, Dolphin, MEMarge and 5 others like this.
  16. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes Received:
    16,214
    My mother became very fatigued and anxious after a bout of flu and was reassured that it was PVS for 3 months until she collapsed and they discovered she had a small cell, very aggressive cancer. It would have made no difference to the outcome and was probably better for her, but fatigue is not always benign and I felt she should at least have had a blood test.
     

Share This Page