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Fingernail defects?

Discussion in 'Other Symptoms' started by Snow Leopard, Jan 16, 2021.

  1. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,247
    Location:
    Australia
    There has been some recent discussion on Twitter about finger nail defects, something that Longcovid sufferers are also starting to notice.

    While nail defects often can be the result of mineral deficiencies, the problem can also be caused by peripheral vascular disease.

    "Terry's nails", is characterised by the nails appearing more white and the disappearance of the lunula seems to be ubiquitous in ME patients.

    But other defects are not uncommon, these include pitting and trachyonychia which suggests nail bed disease and possible psoriasitic activity. Note that trachyonychia is not the same as ridges that span the entire height of the nail, but will have distinct white vertical lines that span part of the nail. The nails can either be "shiny" or rough in nature.

    I suffer from mild trachyonychia and occasional pitting. Unfortunately I have to keep my nails short as a result.


    https://www.activebeat.com/diet-nut...-at-6-health-problems-related-to-fingernails/
    (also note the above link gets the definition of Beau's lines wrong - Beau's lines are horizontal indentations)

    See also:
    https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/multimedia/nails/sls-20076131
    https://www.activebeat.com/diet-nut...-at-6-health-problems-related-to-fingernails/
    (also note the above link gets the definition of Beau's lines wrong - Beau's lines are horizontal indentations)
    http://dvkeywords.blogspot.com/2014/08/shiny-trachyonychia.html
     
  2. Aslaug

    Aslaug Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,602
    I have some nail pitting/Beaus lines (not sure when it goes from a pit to a horizontal line to be honest), I guess it has to do with my psoriasis. Only two nails, one of them almost never, the other one had a pit or line for most of last year, sometimes multiple. Coincides with my psoriasis returning (before writing my master thesis I hadn't had an outbreak in two-three years, now it is starting to go away again). My lunulas have never disappeared, I did not know this was common?
     
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  3. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Two of my nails have these little pits. Reading about it, it seems to be associated with psoriasis. I am not sure but suspect I have scalp psoriasis.

    Psoriasis is an autoimmune disease characterized by an abnormally excessive and rapid growth of the epidermal layer of the skin.

    I wonder if there is a connection to ME/CFS because a variety of ME/CFS studies found elevated markers of cell growth, cell adhesion, cell skeleton and things like that. That seems relevant to excessively fast growing cells with a barrier function.
     
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  4. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Location:
    Australia
    That was the impression I got from Twitter, but it could be wrong, hence why I am asking here!
     
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  5. Aslaug

    Aslaug Moderator Staff Member

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    1,602
    I don't recall any expression studies, do you have references? I remember two studies that indicated increased gut permeability/reduced gut barrier function, and one study where they found a mutation in actin (cellular skeleton component) I think.
     
  6. Ebb Tide

    Ebb Tide Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    181
    I still have lanula on both thumbs and middle fingers but not on the other fingers.
     
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  7. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    TGF-β comes up in various studies. That's one of things I thought of. I remember reading multiple times in various studies about altered cell adhesion. And there is that Japanese study:
    Identification of actin network proteins, talin-1 and filamin-A, in circulating extracellular vesicles as blood biomarkers for human myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome.

    PS: TGF-β is however inhibitory.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  8. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    I developed vertical ridges on my nails after getting ME.
     
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  9. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Location:
    UK
    Recessed nails, at times, had them for many years but it's dim in here and can't really be bothered to check properly if still there. Thumbs mostly, although I seem to remember the odd finger has had them occasionally.

    Ridges across nails, common, but not constant (haven't noticed them for a while on fingers, pretty sure that my toes have them more or less constantly (i.e. I can't remember cutting my toenails and not seeing them)
     
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  10. Colin

    Colin Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ditto.
     
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  11. Kitty

    Kitty Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Location:
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    Terry's nails for decades, but can't remember whether present pre-ME, as it's 45 years ago. Do have vertical ridges, but they're normal by middle age.

    Psoriatic arthritis since 2012, but no skin disease or nail signs – opposite to mum, who had occasional mild skin psoriasis but no arthritis.
     
  12. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    5,245
    I also developed vertical ridges on my thumbnails 5 years after onset, the ridges eventually started on my little finger ring fingers and middle fingers over the years.

    Years ago I assumed it was from malabsorption problems, but I still have them so it's caused by something else.
     
  13. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Location:
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    I’ve got vertical ridges but I’m late 50s and i assume it’s because Im getting older
     
  14. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Canada
    Yup. Don't know if I just didn't notice them before but it's been obvious this year. Maybe it was there a long time ago, I don't really pay attention much to weird things happening to my body anymore. I noticed it mostly when I saw people with LC talking about it and saw the same.

    I have the vertical lines and some sort of grooves that are about 5-6mm in length with 1-2mm spaces in-between, but only on my thumbs. Nailbeds are also whiter than normal. No horizontal lines, just vertical.

    I've had a sort of rotten toe nail for 3 years that I assumed was fungus but no treatment has had any effect and I'm thinking it's probably the same thing.
     
  15. Caesar

    Caesar Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
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    I got vertical ridges on my nails exactly at the same time as I got my first symptoms of ME/CFS.

    I also got red vertical stripes under a pair of nails.

    I still have these two nail changes.

    At the same time I got small black dots under the nails, which followed the nails out while the nails grew. I have little of this now, but it happens occasionally.

    Edit: New info: After a check, my lunula have disappeared on four fingers! But on my thumbs they are crazy big... o_O
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  16. Ravn

    Ravn Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    • Terry's nails
    • lunulas disappeared except for on thumbs but those are slowly shrinking now, too
    • mild vertical ridges
    • occasionally Beau's lines on one or two fingers which grow out again
    • prone to white spots on fingernails (leukonychia, more likely trauma than mineral deficiency)
    • not fingernails as such but also have abnormal nail fold capillaries (this actually sparked a brief investigation into the possibility of systemic scleroderma but this was quickly discounted - phew! - and idiopathic Raynaud's got the blame instead)
    • also chilblains are especially bad around the nail fold (they only started after ME turned severe)
    I blame the lot on bad circulation, admittedly without any evidence :D. No idea what to blame the bad circulation on though...
     
  17. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Lunulas on all of my fingers... but only on the large toes. Lunulas are absent on any of the 8 smaller toes. Maybe this is typical. I don't know.

    Also, only developed vertical ridges on my fingernails after getting ME in my early 20's, so, in my case, it doesn't seem related to more advanced age.
     
  18. Graham

    Graham Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    When I first went down with ME I reported to the doctor that alongside the pain and cold ache in my legs my toenails had stopped growing. I just got that look.

    A few months later, when they had started again, each nail had a ridge, and the nail later peeled off as is grew up.

    Yet my circulation down there was good. Evidence of poor mitochondrial function???
     
  19. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    2,397
    Somewhat surprised that apart from my thumbs I have no lunula (fingers and ties). I have no idea when they disappeared.

    Is this pretty universal? Do we need a poll on finger and tie nail changes?
     
  20. Wits_End

    Wits_End Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
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    Location:
    UK London
    As a control: I don't have ME - or psoriasis - but my left little and ring fingers have been ridged for decades. Now middle finger as well, and the same now on the right hand, but less pronounced. 3 lunulas (lunulae?) still visible: both thumbs, and right index finger. Not sure whether the others have actually disappeared, or whether I simply need to push the quicks down further. The right thumb and nail are both significantly larger than the left, and the lunula there is far more apparent - I've always ascribed this to the fact that my right thumb was probably the one I used to suck when a child/baby.
     
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