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Everybody was telling me there was nothing wrong

Discussion in 'Health News and Research unrelated to ME/CFS' started by Alvin, May 31, 2018.

  1. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Fundamentally, I think the principles of it is very good. Unfortunately, it is very vulnerable to short term political and financial machinations.
     
  2. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I see :(
    We also have many challenges, though they are not quite the same but costs and wait times and sometimes useless doctors are problems on our side of the pond.
    I would say often useless doctors but i am taking into account people who have "mainstream" medical issues
     
  3. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think within a crumbling system, the good, curious and genuine doctors are often constrained by the system, while the same excuses and even supports the behaviour of the more self serving doctors who put their careers and self interests above patients every time.
     
  4. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Very good points in my view. I don't think they are so far-fetched.

    That's not my experience. I often feel like a pain in the ass to the doctor à la "Why do you have to bother me with your trivialities; gosh, I need to get rid of her fast. Prescribe something, tell her how you empathize, do some cheap and non-telling tests, and I'll have my peace".
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
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  5. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I understand. By definition all of us will have had different doctor experiences so i suppose there is no universal answer here.
     
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  6. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    It should say this:
    The top version only makes sense if:
    1. All women are rich, or
    2. All woman are poor, or
    3. the word "patients" only applies to men, and women are just women and not to be referred to as "patients", and low-income patients are not real men.

    Don't mention it, and I'm not even a journalist.
     
  7. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @TiredSam you're a hero indeed.

    You explanation highlights another problem I have though.

    Take this quote "They were more likely than men to see 10 or more months pass between their first visit to a doctor and diagnosis –and to have made more than five visits to a doctor prior to diagnosis."

    Genders (on average) do not seek out doctors for diagnosis and treatment the same way. From my understanding, women see doctors much earlier and more frequently than men. I might be totally wrong, but there is a stereotype of men not going to the doctor until the problem is much further along in the process of the illness/sickness/disability. I assume that this could explain the discrepancy in the quote above. (Assuming that the longer and more advanced an illness is, the easier it is to diagnose.)

    This is emphatically not to say that women are treated well, but that if we are to try to stop discrimination, we need to find the institutional sources of it.

    I hesitate to write this, as it seems like teaching women how Patriarchy works, but feminist theory tells us that Patriarchy also hurts men. The quote sounds like it is a good example of how it does.

    The women are sensible and do what they are expected to do. They go and see a doctor when experiencing something abnormal that is probably in the doctor's domain to help. They receive poor treatment.

    The men are not sensible, yet do what they are expected to do. They experience something abnormal that is probably in the doctor's domain to help. Because seeking help, being vulnerable, not being in control are not seen as masculine behaviours, they do not seek help until much later.

    We need to know how much of the problem is sexism, how much racism, classism, etc, how much is lack of knowledge and skill, and how they all interact.
     
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  8. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree completely. Complain about your physical ailments too soon, or too often, and there seems to be no shortage of people around to call you a bit of a wimp, a little flower, etc etc, either at the time, or for years afterwards.
     
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  9. Lisa108

    Lisa108 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    So, in fact, you're called 'girls'. :)

    I also struggle with the word 'complaining'. When I am sick (and that is the only time when I'll go see my doctor), I have to fill her/him in on what is wrong with me. I am expressing my condition.
    Agreed, it is a negative condition (I feel sick) that I am talking about. But s/he is the expert supposed to know (or to find out) what is wrong and how that can be fixed. Then, if s/he can't find something or thinks that the finding is not enough to explain the severety of my condition - that is when my report is turned into 'complaining' (aka whining, aka 'all in your head').

    It is a known fact that lab tests (imaging techniques included) are not as sensitive and significant as tv series would like to make us think. Still medical professionals highly rely on those findings.
    I wish medical school and health care system wouldn't rob (future) docs's curiosity and empathy. Medical professionals should inherit combined Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson genes! (CRISPR/CAS to the rescue!)
     
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  10. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually I don't recall ever being called a girl (mind you "wimp" and "little flower" come from women in my family, and women would be less likely to call me a "girl" in a derogatory way). No man would ever dare call me a wimp, flower or girl because they'd get thumped.

    I think I was using it in the sense of "medical complaint" rather than "Oh why me, this is so unfair!", but it's unfortunate that the word can mean both, I'd never really thought about that.

    And if a man delays going to a doctor, when he finally does go and there's something wrong with him then he's a stubborn old bastard without the sense he was born with. There must be a sweet spot in the middle where a man goes to a doctor at exactly the right time to prevent a cacophony of derision from the women in his life, but I'm buggered if I'm any closer to finding it. Anyone?
     
  11. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Lisa108 , yes we become girls, or at the least - 'not men'.

    I like the use of the word 'complaint' and it's double meaning here. At first, the complaint is seen as something that is happening to us, then the harder the doctor has to work and think, the more the complaint is something that is happening to them. For us, nothing changes, but for the doctor, the exact same symptoms become explained to us in a different way, the more they have to think and are exposed to their own ignorance.

    Instead of a complex mystery our Sherlock's decide that it was the butler who did the killing. Even when there are no butlers, it is still the butler, they insist!

    I wouldn't know, I've consciously become a 'nagger' of my Dad for just this. The last two times, it was iron deficiency anaemia, and glaucoma. Contrary to harmful stereotypes, men can be very good at 'nagging' too.

    I would say that in general, it is better to see a doctor as soon as possible, and hope for harm reduction, or the ease of unnecessary suffering. Whether that applies to us as a group, I'm not so sure.
     
  12. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There is also the problem of women going late to the doctor and being treated as "all the others" that go earlier (and probably acting more reasonably). So there are certainly some women that go as late as men to the doctor, i.e. their health state could be as bad, but are treated as "wimps" and "sensitives", too, where men probably would get good diagnostics.

    I think what can be summarized is the following (by @TiredSam):
    ...or a woman. And to find that "sweet spot" is arbitrarily difficult I would say.
     
  13. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    Perhaps just before it's too late, when you have something clearly wrong with you, which the doctor can recognise and diagnose, and then get to be an absolute hero by saving you at the last minute?
     
  14. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Exactly. :D

    I have accepted in part that that's how it is. I think it is stupid not to act foresightedly, but that's obviously how it is with doctors. One doctor said to me he doesn't act "prophetic" (meaning here "foresighted"). So that's how they view it - as "prophetic".

    I can't change it because I can't prescribe drugs for myself (or pay for them; some are really expensive).

    We patients have to pay with our health or even death. But that's how it was in the middle ages, too - or in other times of the past - so why complain? People weren't wimps then, but went to work, even when sick. (Irony)
     
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