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David Tuller: Trial By Error: Professor Sharpe’s Pre-Hearing Briefing for Monaghan

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS news' started by Andy, Jul 2, 2018.

  1. large donner

    large donner Guest

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    Smoking is only dangerous when the wrong shops administer it, its safe and effective in our trials.
     
  2. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    Of course it's entirely possible that Turdie Chalder said "it's ok Michael, you don't have to write my name, just write the PACE authors, that'll be fine, really", assuming that at least he'd be able to spell PACE properly.
     
  3. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

    That made me laugh hard enough to induce PEM!
     
    Inara, NelliePledge, janice and 9 others like this.
  4. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    You can find it here on pages 5 and 6 : https://sci-hub.tw/10.1136/bmj.39316.472361.80
     
  5. Tom Kindlon

    Tom Kindlon Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  6. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Exactly. I couldnt walk 500mtrs in 6 days. It took me a while to understand the chart because of that.
    My SF36 is 10-15 on a good day, & my maximum distance, at al,l (never mind in 6mins) is 46mtrs without collapsing. This is up & down the garden. And despite making the trip as often as possible & trying to increase it regularly, I just cant. And i dont try to increase because i think i 'should', but because i really REALLY want/need to, but it's no good. So how on earth someone who's ill enough to have a PF score of 10 or below can walk more than 100 mtrs is beyond me. Which, as you suggest Trish, makes rather a mockery of the SF 36... which we already knew anyway. The sooner the SF36 is scrapped for use in ME, the better.
     
    EzzieD, Trish, Amw66 and 1 other person like this.
  7. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

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    The acid test:

    When they want to say: "If I'd done my homework, I would have passed the test"
    Do they say: "If I would have done my homework, I would have passed the test"

    I've never known any native speaker of a Germanic language (other than English) to ever get this right. And that includes people who've been living in English speaking countries for many years and use it every day.
     
    adambeyoncelowe and TiredSam like this.
  8. LightHurtsME

    LightHurtsME Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    How about "If I had done my homework, I would have passed the test."
     
    NelliePledge and Woolie like this.
  9. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

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    Same as mine, I think, uncontracted.
     
  10. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    Perfect is "If I'd done my homework, I'd have passed the test" whilst knowing that the first 'd is for had and the second 'd is for would. And if they get that right I ask them "If you hadn't had pumpernickel for breakfast, what would you have had to have had?"
     
  11. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    Despite being poorly expressed, I think I have just realised what he is trying to say. Is the "(by not patients in general)" a claim that patient activist groups are being led by trouble-makers who are not genuine ME patients? If so, this is a new claim. So far being an ME sufferer has been a good enough reason to dismiss anything an academic, scientist or journalist might say about the PACE trial, but now not being an ME sufferer is a good reason to dismiss anything an "activist" might say.

    So we now have the following:

    So far all academics who are also ME sufferers have been dismissed as biased.
    Now academics who are not ME sufferers can be dismissed as "not patient" activists.
    And as for non-academics, with or without ME, they can obviously be dismissed as unworthy of notice.

    Does that cover everyone? Has Michael Sharpe managed to find a category for absolutely everyone now, so that every critic can be dismissed, and everyone can be quite justifiably blocked from twitter?
     
    Inara, Lisa108, Arnie Pye and 7 others like this.
  12. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    And who are these non-patient activists who are trying to discredit science? How did they infiltrate us? And why? And does this get us off the hook now, or what?
     
  13. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    Sorry to keep posting, but I was just slicing my banana into my muesli when the penny finally dropped.

    @dave30th - that'll be you he's talking about. Congratulations, Michael Sharpe has invented a whole new category just for you. He already has one for @Tom Kindlon et al (biased ME sufferer), now we have "not patient activist" for those who don't have ME.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2018
    Inara, Woolie, Solstice and 11 others like this.
  14. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    You cannot tarnish a rusted blade Mr Sharpe...
     
  15. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    I think what MS meant to say was '(but not patients in general)'. So it's those patient activist groups (including difficult people with ME (people like that well known rebel against society Charles Shepherd)) that have been rejecting treatments and making all the noise.

    Whereas the 'patients in general' refers to the silent majority of patients who are deeply grateful that the BPS proponents have taken the trouble to quantify the patients' behavioural failings while offering up salvation with scientifically proven treatments such as GET and the Lightning Process.
     
  16. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    I was wondering whether the "by" belonged to the "led" before it, as in "led by ...". Hard to tell what it means, we shouldn't have to work it out.
     
  17. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    No wonder they summarise all these classifications of pointless people and activists into people with “unhelpful beliefs” it’s so complicated for them otherwise

    In this instance I take it that an “unhelpful person” means anyone who disagrees with a random hypothesis generated by a superior being?

    Perhaps we should just be strapped to a chair and called unhelpful until we are brainwashed by CBT to agree with the supreme being?

    I guess those people who don’t respond to brainwashing (is it 92% or 80%?) can be lobotomised as having “very unhelpful beliefs”?

    sorry I made up a new classification...I know it’s unbecoming of me as a lesser being but I’m making a bid for supreme overlord.
     
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  18. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That's how I read it--the "by" was a typo--it should have been "but." In other words, the patient activists reject it, but most patients are not activists and they accept the validity of the treatments.
     
    Inara, NelliePledge, Woolie and 4 others like this.
  19. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    In a sense he is probably right. Most patients, at least during the relatively short period they are having CBT or GET treatment probably do accept the validity of the treatment - especially if they are newly diagnosed and haven't researched it.

    They trust doctors and therapists who tell them the treatments are proven to work. It is only later, when their symptoms don't go away, and they get worse if they try to go on increasing activity that the horrible reality hits and they realise they have been conned.
     
  20. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This gives rise to the question whether all those who "accept" the treatment have given informed consent, or whether they are kept in the dark as to any potential risks, however small researchers and clinicians deem those risks to be.
     
    Inara, Milo, mango and 13 others like this.

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