Daily Telegraph: Living hell or yuppie flu? The confusing fog of chronic fatigue syndrome

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Richard Holt
https://healthybeast.podbean.com/ (Lucky Old you!!!!)



Tired of chronic fatigue syndrome

February 1, 2019
Writer Nick Duerden had a very active life before he was hit by an illness that left him virtually unable to leave the house. Luckily he could still type, so he wrote a book about how he used alternative medicine to try and overcome his condition. Sceptical about all of this? I was - and thankfully so was Nick...
Get Well Soon: Adventures in Alternative Healthcare is published by Bloomsbury.
Find out about Nick's other work at Nickduerden.co.uk.


Richard Holt

Richard Holt writes regular articles for Telegraph Men. He can be contacted at

richardholtuk@gmail.com

Or the twitter feed…
Healthy Beast
@richmholt

A podcast for anybody who believes that sitting still and pretending not to be an animal is bad for your health

https://healthybeast.podbean.com/


Health
Trying to keep the animal as happy as possible.

A belated attempt by Richard Holt to live a good, healthy life.

He talks to people who understand these things far better than he does. (Depends who you talk to!)
 
Suffolkres said:
Feel free to use the contacts below

Richard Holt
https://healthybeast.podbean.com/ (Lucky Old you!!!!)



Tired of chronic fatigue syndrome

February 1, 2019
Writer Nick Duerden had a very active life before he was hit by an illness that left him virtually unable to leave the house. Luckily he could still type, so he wrote a book about how he used alternative medicine to try and overcome his condition. Sceptical about all of this? I was - and thankfully so was Nick...
Get Well Soon: Adventures in Alternative Healthcare is published by Bloomsbury.
Find out about Nick's other work at Nickduerden.co.uk.


Richard Holt

Richard Holt writes regular articles for Telegraph Men. He can be contacted at

richardholtuk@gmail.com

Or the twitter feed…
Healthy Beast
@richmholt

A podcast for anybody who believes that sitting still and pretending not to be an animal is bad for your health

https://healthybeast.podbean.com/


Health
Trying to keep the animal as happy as possible.

A belated attempt by Richard Holt to live a good, healthy life.

He talks to people who understand these things far better than he does. (Depends who you talk to!)
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Or not, my advice would be to ignore him and do something better with your precious energy.
 
Esther12 said:
People with cancer who have more positive cognitions about prognosis have better survival rates.
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This has been disproved but it remains as a myth probably because it gives cancer patients (and their families) a sense of control over outcomes. Most of us know people who have died from cancer despite fighting and others who made the decision to not have treatment. The whole idea of positive thinking having an effect on anyone's health has no basis and is just a reflection of the way "disability porn" is so popular in our society.

It makes me angry. If anyone has the right to show anger, to be selfish, to rest and enjoy quiet times with family it is cancer patients. If they want to run a marathon and start a charity fine, but if they want to sit at home feeling sorry for themselves that should be fine too.

This isn't aimed at you Esther!
 
Kalliope said:
What would happen, I want to know, if he just started forcing himself to do more, to gradually increase his levels of physical activity. This is where he hears the words of the CFS hardcore, who tell sufferers to be very careful not to exacerbate the condition. Duerden says he recently saw a cognitive behavioural therapist on the NHS, who told him: “Oh just ignore those people, they’re talking rubbish. You have to do more and more activity. You are very unfit. You have to get over this sense that physical therapy is bad.”

So why doesn’t he, for the sake of his family, just force himself to get out and do more? Duerden says he would, but he is caught between two sets of advice: one tells him to increase his physical activity; the other says that is the last thing he should be doing.

At this point, I can't help wondering whether sitting on the fence is not the best way forward. There is a telling phrase in what one expert told me.

“One of the characteristic features of chronic fatigue syndrome is profound tiredness after unaccustomed exercise,” said Dr Simon Aylwin, Consultant Endocrinologist at London Bridge Hospital. “It makes the immediate symptoms worse but does not make the condition worse. However, the mainstay of therapy is a graded exercise programme, gradually increasing daily activity over time, as well as cognitive behavioural therapy. One of the main predictors of a good outcome is a belief that the syndrome will get better.”

:banghead:
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Utter bollocks isn’t it. Is that Simon Aylwin in any position of influence or care because he doesn’t get it at all.
What he’s describing is CF but with ME it’s nothing to do with the activity being unaccustomed and that sounds like wessely speak “ofcourse you might get some “unpleasant sensations” when you try new things, just ignore that and steadily increase regardless of symptoms”. I can get symptom flare just from staying on the phone too long, it’s tiny levels of exertion which should not trigger such dramatic response.

Plus it’s not just fatigue is it, hence PEM not PEF is preferred by patients to cover, you know, the rolling around in pain bit.

Plus if it’s repeated it can make the condition worse, that’s how most people deteriorate.

Then to top it off he puts the emphasis on patient belief based on some stupid form of reasoning which ignores the fact that people who feel they can exercise are probably just less sick.

This whole BPS viewpoint is essentially just reconditioning which is a ridiculous response to this illness and is utterly unsubstantiated by evidence and at odds with basic patients narrative, the stuff you usually listen to to form a picture. It’s BS and I apologise for swearing, I only use it to convey extra special contempt and anger.
 
ladycatlover said:
What? You don't watch Endeavour, Lewis and Morse? ;) I like Vera too, husband is a bit off about the latest series. Says he thinks it's a bit more of the same. I don't mind that.

I can't help feeling that TV therapy might be a lot better than CBT etc. Not curative of course, but cheering-up-ative. As I said to Wonko before, when first ill my best friends were the crew of Enterprise (Next Generation). :)
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@ladycatlover love it I’m rewatching Rumpole of the Bailey in the afternoons at the moment - very therapeutic :D
 
Esther12 said:
People with cancer who have more positive cognitions about prognosis have better survival rates.
Click to expand...

duncan said:
I doubt this would hold up to proper scrutiny. I am reminded of at least one study that demonstrated prayer improved survival rates in cancer patients.
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Mithriel said:
This has been disproved but it remains as a myth probably because it gives cancer patients (and their families) a sense of control over outcomes. Most of us know people who have died from cancer despite fighting and others who made the decision to not have treatment. The whole idea of positive thinking having an effect on anyone's health has no basis and is just a reflection of the way "disability porn" is so popular in our society.

It makes me angry. If anyone has the right to show anger, to be selfish, to rest and enjoy quiet times with family it is cancer patients. If they want to run a marathon and start a charity fine, but if they want to sit at home feeling sorry for themselves that should be fine too.

This isn't aimed at you Esther!
Click to expand...

Hold on - people are missing out my second sentence!

Esther12 said:
People with cancer who have more positive cognitions about prognosis have better survival rates. That's not because of the remarkable power of the mind though, it's because peoples' beliefs are often influenced by reasonable judgements about their situation.
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The idea that positive cognitions cause improved prognosis has been debunked by research that showed the association was a result of patients being able to make an informed judgement about their prognosis. ie some patients with cancer have sound medical reasons to be more positive about prognosis than others, so of course positive cognitions about prognosis will be associated with a better survival rate.

I was just pointing out how, if there is an association like this with ME/CFS (and I'd assume there would be for most conditions), it doesn't necessarily tell us anything about whether cognitions influence prognosis.
 
Squeezy said:
"Profound tiredness after unaccustomed exercise" he says. He's missed the point. It's mostly "Profound bloody tiredness after ACCUSTOMED exercise, for no bloody reason."

I never stopped brushing my teeth, or going to the loo, so why is this so bloody exhausting?
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Or indeed, it’s profound bloody tiredness before, during and after accustomed activity...
 
I have now listened to the full 40 minute interview between Richard Holt and Nick D.
Nick D was honest and even handed about his situation; I even made some notes and observations, but it's clear Mr Holt is not a good listener.

If he had really listen and used his brain, he wouldn't have created the self opinionated, supercilious crap copy published by the Daily T.
But then he's obviously playing to the crowd to earn a buck at someone else's expense.

If I were Nick D I would have been furious to give him so much air time and see this result.
Especially at the damning explanation of the NHS approach by Nick, Richard seeks the opinion of an NHS practitioner who was happy to validate his own distorted view of ME matters.
 
Esther12 said:
The idea that positive cognitions cause improved prognosis has been debunked by research that showed the association was a result of patients being able to make an informed judgement about their prognosis. ie some patients with cancer have sound medical reasons to be more positive about prognosis than others, so of course positive cognitions about prognosis will be associated with a better survival rate.

I was just pointing out how, if there is an association like this with ME/CFS (and I'd assume there would be for most conditions), it doesn't necessarily tell us anything about whether cognitions influence prognosis.
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Exactly.

It always seems that so much of the crap coming from the BPS crowd boils down to them implying causation from correlation without justification.
 
It's a terrible article. And basically just a plug for the book. I read the book a while ago and wrote a review you can read here:
https://www.s4me.info/threads/review-cfs-book-by-nick-duerden.7021/#post-127611

At the end of the book he says he doesn't think he has CFS after all because a doctor told him it couldn't be CFS because he wasn't depressed. Seems he's changed his mind since then. I got the feeling he did most of the way out alt therapies so he could write an entertaining book about them, not in a genuine search for healing.
 
Squeezy said:
"Profound tiredness after unaccustomed exercise" he says. He's missed the point. It's mostly "Profound bloody tiredness after ACCUSTOMED exercise, for no bloody reason."

I never stopped brushing my teeth, or going to the loo, so why is this so bloody exhausting?
Click to expand...

Anyone else find breathing to be super hard? I don’t recall ever stopping doing it for a long stretch of time, but I may have been so busy thinking positively I forgot to...
 
depend son what you mean by long periods of time really. I have always had instances of forgetting to breathe, it's perfectly possible to distance me enough so I just forget, for a while.

...and yes, at times, breathing can be quite hard, more trouble than it's worth from my point of view, but the animal disagrees.
 
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