Covid19 - Shielding and self-isolating for vulnerable people - policies and issues

Yeah, if I'd given my landline number when signing up to the government list I would definitely have assumed something fishy. It may still be hackers/scammers got that somehow, although I don't know how - I didn't think the supermarkets were given anything more than names and addresses, if they were then that's really bad.

I would be surprised if scammers were to leave a message and give their mobile number for a return call though, as they usually like to catch people off their guard and not allow them time to get advice from friends or family.
 
Throughout this pandemic the government has been completely indifferent to the serious issue of exposing not just the average person, but the most vulnerable in society, to potential fraudsters and criminals. I've written on other threads about how bad the NHS Coronavirus Responder scheme is in this regard.

I was listening to Alexis Conrad on the radio on the weekend and he has written about his concerns with the track and trace programme potential to be used by fraudsters to glean personal data from members of the public that aren't vigilant to this possibility. At no time has the government written to me as a vulnerable shielded person explaining the steps I should take to protect myself from potential covid scams. Not surprising though, because potential harm is built into their NHS volunteer scheme.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nhs-track-and-trace-scams
 
I think one side effect of the public starting to think things are 'getting back to normal' is that it seems to be increasingly hard to get a supermarket delivery slot in my area. I've noticed that my fit, young and healthy, 2 car family with only one daughter (whose dad has shared custody of her) next door neighbours have now gone back to getting their weekly deliveries from Tesco or Asda (as they did prior to the lockdown). The only way I can get even a priority delivery slot with Tesco is to log on just after 12 midnight and book a slot for 4 weeks' time (just the one day is available and both the fixed and priority slots are gone by the next morning). There was actually more slots available just a few weeks ago!

Edit: I know they are healthy and not 'shielding' - they have both been going out a lot since lockdown has been eased.
 
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Previously there was a constant message from supermarkets to leave online shopping slots for people who were either isolating or unable to get into the shops (for example due to disability). This messaging now appears to have been forgotten, healthy people don't want the hassle of waiting in queues so now online shopping has increased in demand and the needs of disabled people (not just those shielding) seems to be even less of a societal concern. I don't think this pandemic has 'brought out the best' in society at all. If it requires constant government and media messaging to keep vulnerable people's needs in the consciousness of the public, that's not indicating genuine change in attitudes.
 
I think one side effect of the public starting to think things are 'getting back to normal' is that it seems to be increasingly hard to get a supermarket delivery slot in my area. I've noticed that my fit, young and healthy, 2 car family with only one daughter (whose dad has shared custody of her) next door neighbours have now gone back to getting their weekly deliveries from Tesco or Asda (as they did prior to the lockdown). The only way I can get even a priority delivery slot with Tesco is to log on just after 12 midnight and book a slot for 4 weeks' time (just the one day is available and both the fixed and priority slots are gone by the next morning). There was actually more slots available just a few weeks ago!

Edit: I know they are healthy and not 'shielding' - they have both been going out a lot since lockdown has been eased.

It didn’t even occur to me that this would happen. I stupidly presumed ordering online would get easier so I was also dismayed to see how difficult it was to get a slot the other day even with priority ordering. Not as bad as a month wait though.

This is the first time I’ve had a basic thing missing from my order too. The only reason I placed the order was because I ran out of bread and too ill to make it. I ordered 3 loaves; all different types to make sure I got one. Spent £100 on shopping (was only shopping to get the bread) and not one loaf arrived! :mad: :mad: Even during lockdown I got bread.
 
It can be 'annoying'.

I've done similar shopping orders, of a similar size, selecting entire categories and allowing subs, and had 70% of the order not arrive, with the delivery not having anything in the one or two categories I placed the order specifically to get.

Can't say I've had a problem with generic bread tho, other than from ASDA of course, but they don't often seem to sell food - which may be why it's relatively easy to get a slot from them. Looks like they need to work on their supply chains, but ATM that's likely to be 'problematic'.
 
Just checking were either of these shops you mention @Hell..hath..no..fury... or @Wonko , from Sainsburys orders?

We’ve had a similar issue with Sainsburys. Sometimes half the shop is missing! However so far Ocado has been really good - telling us at checkout if something is not there, and I think we’ve only had a couple of substitutions, if that. We always got our eggs, (sometimes different brands), and staples etc.
 
Yes, that was sainsburys - I'd shopped there for over 17 years but have now stopped, even if they have now got stock levels on most things back up they just leave my shopping in the street which is of no use to me. It's actually 'harmful' to me as I am not up to hauling it up the stairs before it goes walkabout. Was taking me weeks to 'recover'.

Sainsburys, often had eggs, and diary (although I did have a delivery where they claimed to have no milk, of any type, fresh, skimmed, semi ,or full, no UHT of any type or brand, no dried either - at the same times as the media awas announcing a milk mountains as all the places that normally buy it, restaurants etc, weren't). Often no tinned stuff of any type, often no cleaning products/bleach. Often no pulses, beans, rice or pasta. Never any hand sanitizer. Huge online order values to try and get £20-30 worth of stuff, resulting in £40-50 worth of stuff, over half of which was useless subs (e.g. one I will never forget, 2 small tins of minced beef and onion subbed for a 200g bag of peanuts - the peanut butter made from this sub would not have been very good) - with my still not getting the primary aim of my order. Just to add to the experience they then started leaving my shopping in the street - time to find somewhere else to get shopping.

Asda, good for some veg, good for tinned meats/fish/fruit (not always great quality but it exists and turns up), in 3 shops I have not had a single egg from them, no flour or baking ingredients either. Good for pulses, lentils, cous cous, etc. (small quantities only). Their green veg is 'odd' when compared with sainsbury's of the same name, and cabbages, one or 2 portions only, sainsburys ones often do 4 portions, sometimes more. But it does exist, and has remained so throughout - the same can't be said for Tesco or Sainsburys.

Tesco, normally have eggs, although you may be mucked about a bit whilst ordering, they have most things, other than flour and baking ingredients. Although last time I got 'sneaky' and ordered polish cake flour as they had no plain flour - same thing, most people don't seem to know it, so finally, I got some plain flour. I also managed to get baking powder, from a UK supermarket, not something I have achieved in, judging by expiry dates, at least 4 years. First order, in months, from anywhere, that was delivered as ordered, with no omissions or subs. It was a 'surprise'.
 
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Just checking were either of these shops you mention @Hell..hath..no..fury... or @Wonko , from Sainsburys orders?

We’ve had a similar issue with Sainsburys. Sometimes half the shop is missing! However so far Ocado has been really good - telling us at checkout if something is not there, and I think we’ve only had a couple of substitutions, if that. We always got our eggs, (sometimes different brands), and staples etc.
Ocado will always find it a bit easier as they (as I understand it) have no stores, so all their online orders are shipped from a warehouse, so when you put an item in your online basket it goes off the shelf - so they can keep a closer eye on their stock, there are no pesky customers in the shop buying them. When you have an online order being picked from a store, you have customers going round & picking off the shelves in competition with the pickers for the online deliveries, so while it may have been available the day before it isn't any more.

Morrisons used to do all warehouse like Ocado as well, no store based deliveries, so a missing item or substitute was very rare, it was marvellous, but then they changed it to partly store based & they are just as unreliable for items as everyone else now (except Ocado).

As to the deliveries, Morrisons have got plenty of slots in my area, but I do do all my orders a few wks in advance anyway - I currently have 4 wks worth of orders checked out. so every wk i'm booking a slot for in 3-4wks time.
 
There are plenty of priority slots available with Sainsburys in my area. But given that they only offer a very reduced range for online delivery (not sure if this is everywhere or just my area) and other people's reported problems and that I am fortunate enough to have a healthy daughter who can occasionally do an instore shop there for me, then I'm avoiding them. The difference between Sainsburys and Tesco in my area is that Sainsbury's store offer the click and collect service (with a full range of items) and Tesco doesn't do this, so people who regularly use Tesco are more likely to want to get the online slots from them.
 
https://www.hsj.co.uk/news/exclusiv...h-risk-patients-to-be-dropped/7027857.article

The government is set to cease its “shielding” programme for those at highest risk from coronavirus at the end of July, HSJ has learned.

According to sources close to the issue, more than 2 million people classed as extremely vulnerable to covid-19 are set to be told that from the end of July they no longer need to isolate at home.

This also means that food packages and medicine deliveries for these people will be ended, although priority for online food shopping is likely to remain. It is unclear if any additional help will be offered to those people who cannot access the internet.

HSJ understands the decision was made as the levels of the virus circulating in the community are now low enough to allow people to be given some respite from the strict isolation rules.

The government will maintain the shielding list, which has been beset with problems, in case they need to ask people to shield again in the autumn and winter months if a resurgence of the virus is seen.

It is expected people who are currently listed as extremely clinically vulnerable - such as those with severe respiratory disease, organ transplants and some types of cancer - will be asked to follow the guidance issued to a much larger population of people seen as only “clinically vulnerable”.

This second level of guidance, aimed at those who are normally eligible for a flu jab on the NHS, has caused concern previously, with many elderly people believing it meant they were also not to leave their house. It is not yet clear whether this guidance will be amended or improved, or if so, by what date.

An official government announcement on shielding is expected shortly, with letters to those who are shielding due to be sent out next week.

The Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, which is leading the programme, has been approached for comment.

Registration required to access the article, but I quoted it in full as it's very basic information at the moment.
 
It's not been officially announced. I was just looking up what the state of play is when I came across a Sun article stating the above and decided to see where they got the information from. The HSJ is somewhat more reliable as a source than the Sun and it's interesting to read the comments from healthcare professionals.
 
Following a link from the first HSJ article, I read the shocking information below. I think this may be relevant to members on the forum who have been left off the shielding list despite having other severe conditions.

‘Abysmal’ communication blamed for variations in self-isolation list
By Lawrence Dunhill12 June 2020

A rushed and confused process has resulted in huge variation in the national list of extremely vulnerable people advised to self-isolate from coronavirus, HSJ has found.

In some areas of the country, particularly parts of Merseyside, clinical commissioning groups have been heavily involved in the process of building the “shielding patient list” – using local databases to carry out comprehensive searches and adding large numbers of patients.

In other areas, there has been little involvement from local commissioners, with the task of validating and adding patients to the list primarily carried out by GPs. These areas appear to have added far fewer patients to the list.

It means people with very similar needs are potentially being treated differently depending on where they live.

At the start of the pandemic, work was started to identify “extremely vulnerable” people – such as cancer patients and organ transplant recipients – who were at high risk of becoming seriously ill from covid-19 and would need to completely self-isolate. They are eligible for food parcels and deliveries of medication.

The process was begun by NHS Digital and NHS England, which identified around 1.3 million people using nationally held lists. Local GPs were then asked on 23 March to validate the national list and add patients where necessary, and to do this within seven days.

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NHS Digital map showing the proportion of shielding patients in each CCG

In some places, such as Liverpool, South Sefton and Southport and Formby, CCGs effectively coordinated the process for their member practices, and reacted quickly to the initial guidance.

Liverpool CCG, for example, led searches of patient records on GPs’ IT systems, with the results then reviewed by GPs. This resulted in Liverpool’s list growing more than four-fold from the initial nationally compiled list, from 11,000 to 48,000. Around 10 per cent of the population is now on the shielding list. A spokeswoman said the CCG was not under any pressure to reduce its list.

South Sefton and Southport and Formby CCGs declined to provide detailed numbers to show how many patients were added locally. But a spokeswoman confirmed their “clinically designed searches” were coordinated by the CCG and local medical committee, on behalf of GP practices. Their lists represent 9 per cent and 8 per cent of the population respectively.

Although a degree of higher need is expected in these areas, other areas which might be expected to have similar needs, such as Manchester and Blackpool have just 4 and 5 per cent of their population on the list.

Manchester’s list increased less than two-fold after the local validation, from 13,000 to 22,000. When asked how its list was compiled, the CCG cited updated guidance that was issued by NHS Digital in late April, which said “no automated searches” should be carried out locally by CCGs.

A spokesman said GPs validated their own lists with CCG involvement limited to providing support and updates on the process, and also suggested the older age profile in Liverpool “probably explains” the difference in relative list size.

But the disparity in the shielding lists when looking solely at the population over 70 is even greater. Around 37 per cent of over 70s in Liverpool’s are on the list – the highest proportion in the country alongside Hounslow in west London - compared to 17 per cent in Manchester.

Blackpool CCG did not provide numbers for patients identified locally, but appears to have followed a similar process to Manchester.

Hounslow, which has 8 per cent of its total population on the list, appears to be an outlier in London. Its list grew more than four-fold, from an initial 3,000 identified nationally, to almost 14,000 after the local process.

A CCG spokesman said the local process was a combination of “working through the GP patient lists with our primary care patient coordination service (these are additional staff in primary care that coordinate patient care pathways) and local GP knowledge of individual patients.” Other parts of London have some of the lowest proportions of the population on the shielding list, such as Tower Hamlets, with 2.6 per cent.

NHS Digital has recently published the data on local shielding lists to inform the public and “support the health and social care system in planning”. The national list currently stands at around 2.2 million, an increase of less than two-fold on that initially compiled centrally.

One CCG chief, who asked not to be named, described the process as “a mess” due to the speed in which GPs were told to compile the lists, as well as unclear guidance from the centre. Another said there had been issues with different areas having different clinical systems, and the absence of fixed codes to record certain conditions.

Rosie Cooper MP, who has previously been critical of the process, said the variation was “very worrying”, as it suggests some patients could be denied support. She added: “The communication of the rules were abysmal. I have spoken to GPs who were completely bemused and thought there was a very narrow list of specific illnesses, by which I mean that they thought it was only specific cancers which qualified.”

Dr Graham Jackson, chair of NHS Clinical Commissioners, said: “The process to identify patients to be shielded seems to have been a mixed bag for our member CCGs. We know that some CCGs and commissioning support units have led on this process, but in many areas it has been led by general practices.”

NHS England did not respond to questions about whether the variation was accepted, or whether there would be further work with outliers to review their lists. A spokeswoman said: “To ensure accuracy and completeness, GPs and specialists were asked to review the NHS shielded patient list as identified by the national algorithm, and use their clinical judgement to add or remove patients as appropriate.”

Dr Nikki Kanani, NHS England’s director of primary care, has previously apologised to GPs about “frustrating” elements of the processes used to build the lists, including the tight timelines that were required.

The guidance for shielding patients was relaxed slightly earlier this month, and is expected to be extended next week.
 
Interesting reading one of the comments to the above article. One lady's healthy husband had been put on the shielding list whereas she had been left off, despite meeting the criteria. This is what happened to me with my daughter being put on the list instead of me. I think they must have been picking up carers (as the letter implied) but then insisted you needed to be the one named on the NHS letter to receive support or exemption from work. Bizarre...
 
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