Covid-19 vaccination experiences

All it reduced, with my n=1 lived experience, was the baseline that I knew.

The rhetoric that "but it keeps you alive" is such a sheer dismissal of QofL that I can't compute for those who have suffered significantly from it.

It makes me wonder if we put such little emphasis on QofL in society, and only merely measure the length for one to live.
 
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The value of vaccinations is measured in probability for whole populations, what we lack is enough knowledge about how to decide what are the probabilities of benefit or harm for us as individuals.

Perhaps the levels of vaccination that has accompanied this Covid-19 outbreak could have been a fantastic opportunity to gain more information. For example in previous online self selected surveys of people with ME’s response to the flue jab, that I have seen in the past, about 30% of us report some level of negative response. Would that be replicated in larger more scientifically selected samples, is that similar with other vaccines and are our responses to vaccines remain consistent over time?
 
Peter Trewhitt said:
For example in previous online self selected surveys of people with ME’s response to the flue jab, that I have seen in the past, about 30% of us report some level of negative response. Would that be replicated in larger more scientifically selected samples, is that similar with other vaccines and are our responses to vaccines remain consistent over time?
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Since the 'flu jab is different each year, it's probably difficult to work it out. If someone has a really unpleasant reaction to it one year, they're unlikely to want it the next. They won't know whether they're vulnerable to a particular type of 'flu vaccine, or they're likely to be sensitive to all of them, or the reaction was partly bad timing due to PEM load or another infection.

There's also the question, is the reaction to the jab worse than 'flu? Most people don't experience true influenza many times in a lifetime, so they may not yet know. I couldn't have given an answer until the age of 50+.
 
TigerLilea said:
According to my doctor (who isn't an antivaxxer) it was a lie we were told that the covid vaccines would protect other people from transmission of the covid virus. You can be fully vaxxed and still pass the virus on. You can also be fully vaxxed and still get sick with covid.
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No, nobody lied. The vaccine phase 3 trials showed very good effectiveness. Real-world effectiveness was lower due to:
  • Immunity fading over time
  • The virus mutating
In late 2020, we knew these were possible, but not whether they'd manifest themselves. If we wanted to see before releasing the vaccine, it would've been years. I suspect another factor in declining vaccine effectiveness is that by now, almost everyone has either had the vaccine or the virus, meaning additional doses are boosting immunity more than creating it anew.
 
RedFox said:
No, nobody lied. The vaccine phase 3 trials showed very good effectiveness. Real-world effectiveness was lower due to:
  • Immunity fading over time
  • The virus mutating
In late 2020, we knew these were possible, but not whether they'd manifest themselves. If we wanted to see before releasing the vaccine, it would've been years. I suspect another factor in declining vaccine effectiveness is that by now, almost everyone has either had the vaccine or the virus, meaning additional doses are boosting immunity more than creating it anew.
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Oh plenty of people lied about that. Well, they expressed their opinion about it, and that opinion was incorrect. But mostly on television and in newspapers, which is where most people hear about it. Because of this, it has been the dominant message most people received, even though contradictory claims are easy to find.

Lies are never fully black and white, they're never 100% false. That's way too crude and ineffective. Any good lie has to overlap with the truth, or even best lie by omission. The WHO withheld from calling COVID airborne until very recently. And that change basically went unnoticed, because it wasn't repeated in opinion pages, front pages and TV reports the same way the hopium-based messages, seemingly inspired by some belief that fear of the virus is worse than the virus, have been.

This is how modern propaganda works. It's never full Orwellian lies that bury the truth entirely and hit people on the head for saying otherwise. Rather it's through the dissemination of more lies than truth, with lots of overlap that deliberately confuse people over whether there is any knowable truth. Public health is treated as a political strategy, and so shares a lot with the usual ways of politics. Including the lack of any accountability.

Turns out that unless there are indisputable mathematical equations showing a definite proof, truth is mostly a relative concept, a matter of perspective, even in scientific disciplines.

The recent messaging has instead been turned into a matter of personal responsibility, even though it's completely impractical and condemns many. It has some truths to it, it has many lies to it. People can get vaccinated, but they were told the pandemic is over so they mostly don't. And the vaccines have limited efficacy anyway. And they can get treated if they get very ill, as if it's a small matter to get so ill one has to go to a hospital.

Everyone is just winging it, doing whatever they can manage to succeed in their immediate social environment. All of this is just too complicated for our tiny human brains, we are completely out of our depths for the most part. At this point I don't even think it's possible for humanity to survive without superintelligent AIs.
 
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Sarah94 said:
First dose: Pfizer, mild side effects for 12 hours
Second dose: Pfizer, mild side effects for 12 hours
Third dose: Moderna, moderate/severe side effects for 30 hours

Fourth dose: Pfizer bivalent, no side effects in the first 32 hours after receiving it.

(Note: I don't consider a sore arm to be a side effect, in the same way that a sore face isn't a side effect of being punched in the face. As it happens, though, the sore arm has been much less with this dose than it was with previous doses.)
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Autumn booster 2023: Pfizer, no side effects in the first 26 hours after receiving it. I barely even have a sore arm.
 
Yesterday had a quadravalent flu jab for the over 65 crowd PLUS a Pfizer covid 2023-24 jab.

Won't have two jabs at the same time ever again.

Fibro pain is ramped up considerably.

I so wish I had some codeine or something stronger.

But I'll probably rally later today. Short medley of misery less than 24hrs I hope.
 
From ME Association FB:

I wasn't able to attend the APPG meeting yesterday as I am not travelling up to London on crowded public transport until I have had my Covid booster - which now has to be given at the hospital vaccine clinic following a nasty reaction to the last one

It sounds as though there was a well attended APPG meeting despite all the other things that were going on at Westminster yesterday!

I can assure everyone that Carol and her parliamentary assistant are being regularly informed about all the key developments and issues of concern to the patient community

Dr Charles Shepherd - MEA
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I got my booster yesterday. Apart from a sore arm, no major problems so far just like with the other Covid vaccine jabs I've got.
 
Does Novavax's Covid vaccine cause fewer side effects?
Data from the United Kingdom found that people more frequently reported temporary reactions — like low fevers, fatigue, and pain — as their immune system ramped up in the days following booster vaccination with Moderna’s mRNA vaccine versus the one by Pfizer. And those boosted with Novavax’s had fewer complaints than either of those. That finding was corroborated in an analysis of international data published last year.

Such studies have driven people with long Covid and chronic fatigue syndrome (also known as myalgic encephalomyelitis, or ME/CFS) to seek out Novavax, too, since the FDA and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention greenlighted Novavax’s vaccine — updated to protect against recent omicron coronavirus variants — about three weeks after recommending updated mRNA vaccines in September.
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https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...d-vaccine-cause-fewer-side-effects-rcna125216
 
Merged thread

NBC News: Does Novavax's Covid vaccine cause fewer side effects?

quotes:

Data from the United Kingdom found that people more frequently reported temporary reactions — like low fevers, fatigue, and pain — as their immune system ramped up in the days following booster vaccination with Moderna’s mRNA vaccine versus the one by Pfizer. And those boosted with Novavax’s had fewer complaints than either of those. That finding was corroborated in an analysis of international data published last year.

Such studies have driven people with long Covid and chronic fatigue syndrome (also known as myalgic encephalomyelitis, or ME/CFS) to seek out Novavax, too

...

Dr. Jennifer Curtin, a doctor who co-founded a telehealth clinic focused on long Covid and ME/CFS, called RTHM, said vaccines seem to temporarily aggravate some patients’ conditions. To learn how Novavax compares, she posted polls on X in late October asking if people with long Covid or ME/CFS felt that their symptoms worsened, improved, or stayed the same after Novavax. Most replied: unchanged.


https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...d-vaccine-cause-fewer-side-effects-rcna125216
 
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For sure the Pfizer kicked my butt for 2 days, and that of everyone in my family who took it.

A lot of people will be making the choice not to get vaccinated because of this. But given the widespread mentality that a few days of illness is no issue anymore, since it's so common, then 1-2 days is basically nothing. Illness has been normalized as a good thing. Damn the future is weird.
 
Kitty said:
Since the 'flu jab is different each year, it's probably difficult to work it out. If someone has a really unpleasant reaction to it one year, they're unlikely to want it the next. They won't know whether they're vulnerable to a particular type of 'flu vaccine, or they're likely to be sensitive to all of them, or the reaction was partly bad timing due to PEM load or another infection.

There's also the question, is the reaction to the jab worse than 'flu? Most people don't experience true influenza many times in a lifetime, so they may not yet know. I couldn't have given an answer until the age of 50+.
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I’m not convinced 100% by that without caveats: those who swear by a vaccine each year who then get a bad reaction do tend to keep going back I witness. Particularly I guess having spent so many years selling how great, important and good it is tends to be a factor standing in way of people admitting they had something caused by it and talk other possibilities though. But they don’t tend to stop having it if they had five good then one bad etc.

if your first two vaccines of something led to a significant side effect however it’s surely a pretty big ask of logic to expect someone to not think they would be likely to get the same from a third try. Yet you wouldn’t believe how those who are ‘for’ will still question or more accurately deliberately not take in/on that, they just switch to ‘ignore setting’
 
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