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Comforting factors that influence the severity of fatigue and other somatic symptoms from the perspective of CFS, 2020, Overgaauw

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS Research' started by Dolphin, Jul 24, 2020.

  1. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Source: Utrecht University Date: June 2, 2020 URL: https://dspace.library.uu.nl/handle/1874/397594

    https://dspace.library.uu.nl/bitstream/handle/1874/397594/Overgaauw (4297776) thesis.pdf

     
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  2. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I've tried to read this, but it's so full of assumptions without basis, leaps of logic and nonsense I can't take it seriously.
     
  3. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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    They themselves had to admit that there was no association between symptoms and the so-called "factors", but they nonetheless continue to call them "factors" and talk about their "soothing influences".
    :dead:
     
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  4. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "This study revealed an encompassing hierarchical structure of soothing influences based on individuals with chronic somatic symptoms, including patients with CFS."

    is this ancient Aramaic? Can someone translate it into English for me?
     
  5. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Here's my translation of the whole thing:

    'We sorted stuff patients said into obvious categories using completely unnecessary fancy stats, then, despite the fact that none of them showed any association with symptom severity, we concluded our favoured therapies would be helpful.'
     
  6. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    You are not trying hard enough, @dave30th. Think of an Italian ice cream store. Sort the soothing influences into cone size, chocolatey and other toffeeish ones, pink ones, green ones and white ones. Then build a hierarchy on your cone and coloured scoops and eat it before it all drips on the pavement (sidewalk).
     
  7. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Seeing the source of the paper I could not get past the memory of Professor Jan van Strabismus whom God preserve of Utrecht.

    I cannot imagine why.
     
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  8. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  9. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Alternatively, this is the dick in a box model of scientific research.

    It goes like this:
    1. Cut a hole in a box
    2. Put your junk in that box
    3. Open that box
    From that point you are free to argue whichever preferred explanation: dicks come in boxes, or, boxes come with dicks. Decades of vigorous drunken debates can ensue. If you simply ignore causation or context, you can argue anything you want. Does it really matter that you put it there in the box? Not really, it's there anyway and isn't that all that really counts in the end?
     
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  10. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks, Jo. Given current restrictions, I can imagine that while masked looking at the ice cream flavors in my local corner store. I'll do that, then try reading the sentence again.
     
  11. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    The standard of translation of some of these alleged scientific papers appears to be as shoddy as the science. At least I’m assuming this terminology - soothing factors - is due to poor translation rather than a term that’s actually used by academics. But even as I write I’m realising I could be totally wrong. After all these people use words in the most bizarre ways.
     
  12. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Indeed. To illustrate. here's just part of one paragraph:

    What evidence is there for psychological factors? The example of the evidence is that someone has suggested that CFS 'involves immune system disorders, cardiovascular abnormalities as well as central nervous system disorders'. Someone suggesting something isn't evidence. Furthermore, 'immune system disorders, cardiovascular abnormalities and central nervous system disorders' aren't evidence of 'psychological factors playing a role', at least not without further explanation.

    So, in that single sentence, there are the questionable assumptions that:
    1. somatoform disorders exist;
    2. that somatoform disorders involve deficits in affect regulation ( the ability of an individual to modulate their emotional state in order to adaptively meet the demands of their environment);
    3. somatoform disorders may have some (unspecified) overlap with CFS;
    4. therefore people with CFS have deficits in affect regulation.

    Having made those heroic assumptions, the author continues:
    1. There are three affect regulation systems (threat, drive and soothing);
    2. Fibromyalgia is the result of an over-active threat-detection system and a deficient soothing system;
    3. CFS and Fibromyalgia overlap;
    4. Therefore, considering these affect regulation systems will lead to better understanding and treatment of CFS;
    5. This is because these affect regulation systems 'seem to modulate neural activity of somatic symptoms' - whatever that actually means.
     
  13. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don't think much of it means anything at all.
     
  14. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I like ice cream. This is more like a really shit pizza.
    The type of flavour combinations that only a pregnant woman could conjure up.
     
  15. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    So, they did a survey of 701 people with chronic symptoms according to self-report - they had all sorts of diseases. Answers from the survey produced a list of things that people found helpful for 'soothing'. There was quite a bit of manipulation of the results by the researchers e.g. if something was specific to just women or old people, it didn't make it onto the list.
    Then 7 (yes!) people with CFS picked out things out of the list that they found helpful.

    Somehow this supports the author's desire for us to be fixed by mindfulness and listening to music:
    So, yeah. It would be laughable except people are coming out of education systems with Masters degrees for producing this kind of prejudiced waffle.
     
  16. Michiel Tack

    Michiel Tack Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Am I correct that this is a master thesis that tried to examine a hierarchical structure of 'soothing factors' in CFS patients, while only having data for 7 CFS patients? That would mean that probably more patients responded in this thread than in the actual study.
     
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  17. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks Michiel you made me laugh.

    They would have done better to just cut out the ‘research’ and post their questions straight on here.
     
  18. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I suspect it was a study allocated to a group of Masters' degree students, with each being allocated one condition to focus on.
    This poor mug got allocated the CFS subgroup which turned out to only get 7 participants and had to try to make something out of it in order to be awarded their degree.
     
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  19. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    On a personal level (N-1) I would find a having few million quid quite soothing.

    It would certainly help relieve some of the stressors in my life, a lot of which are caused by my not having a few million quid.

    A lot of the other stressor, not all, but a lot. could be reduced by having a few million quid, to pay people to help me do things, or to do things for me.

    There exists a possibility I may find this 'comforting'.

    So...if another study into things that sooth people with chronic illness is to be conducted.....
     
  20. shak8

    shak8 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Poor copy editing of the manuscript or note taking. The fibromyalgia-threat detection concept is not from 2016. The book referenced is Paul Gilbert's Human Nature and Suffering, published in 1996, not 2016.

    Poor quality research paper, indeed. Maybe author is missing some soothing attention to detail.

    (Concept was of interest to me, as I made a reference to noise being 'threatening' in a post about PEM.)

    Edit note: British publication of referenced book was 1989 per Wikipedia bio. US publication found for 1996.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020

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